Thoughts - Marathon of "I Sold My RED Camera" Videos

[Zack Birlew]

Hi, everybody, so I was cycling through Youtube and came across a video with the subject of "Why I Sold My RED Camera" and, after watching it, I saw there was a whole trove of videos just like it and decided to marathon through them to see what the various situations might have been and what insights could be gained as a RED beginner or current REDUser. After getting through most of them, I had about all I could stomach, along with a long gushing Oscar attempt video tossed in about this freelance cinematographer whose whole life has seemingly led up to the point of buying a Sony Venice (but not Venice 2?) [a very weird watch and way too much Promist but more power to him for living his best with his Venice].

Anyway, here is the highlights and takeaways from the marathon, not my personal opinions just what was said in the videos, so here's everything from years ago with RED Scarlet MX all the way up to present with Komodo and Helium:

1. Camera fully rigged out is cumbersome and heavy.

2. Workflow for instant playback isn't there - still required to download REDCine-X Pro.

3. Bootup drags down production, Komodo clocked in at 24 seconds in the video.

4. Competition has gotten really good, much talk about Sony A7S 3 and Blackmagic 6K.

5. Accessory pricing is too expensive and horribly lame - Sidegrips and I/O module complaints, should have been included as they're needed for basic function, ripoff feeling.

6. Used RED accessories are a gamble - Buying memory cards and RED batteries a coin flip for functionality and longevity.

7. Support sucks - One guy was told his 2 year old camera was now unsupported, didn't want to risk it and planned to sell and buy something non-RED instead.

8. Image quality was nice but there seemed to be fear of missing out with the competition catching up - Across a few videos there was the idea that someone always about to beat RED???

9. Clients weren't asking for RED - Some people just weren't doing cinematic work (ie. training videos, events, etc.) and didn't see the demand they expected when showing up with a RED. Also, some acknowledged the perception of professionalism when showing up with a RED camera but they didn't feel that their work/style/brand/etc. required it and felt it was too complicated of a camera system for them and sold to buy something more simple.

10. They always wanted one and bought one expecting to be blown away but it didn't seem to add as much to their work as buying the much lower priced competition and putting the savings into lighting, haze machine, new computer, etc. - Also, "Camera not important blah, blah, blah, argument"

11. They didn't like how demanding REDCode RAW files were on their computer systems.

12. The value of their RED camera was going to drop, wanted to sell while they could - Got enough work/testing out of it and wanting to cash in. Some ended up taking a loss on the resale anyway, one guy waiting months for his camera to sell (Scarlet-W).

From memory that was most if not all the points and similar takes I could pick out. I was surprised to see so many of the complaints carrying up to Komodo and Helium as much of these sound like easily remedied problems that RED could have fixed over time, like the bootup time issue. Even though it's like a feedback page compressed into one post, I thought it would be interesting to share nonetheless as it shows that even though they're four generations in (counting RED One/MX as the first gen), RED has a good deal of room to improve for the future.

 

[TYLER STOOKSBURY]

I have seen a handful of them. Komodo and V-Raptor fixed nearly everything I didn't like about DSMC2.

The post workflow, if you don't know what youre doing can be pretty complicated. I will take to my grave that sometimes, shooting ProRes only is plenty for some projects. Not everything is worth the storage. Also i feel like people buy these cameras and never really learn how to use them. I see people that still don't understand when to calibrate the sensor, or how to properly use the amazing built in exposure tools.

Also that guy that bought the Venice, I saw that video. It's a great camera, but that seemed like an odd purchase to me. Im not sure why you wouldn't buy an Alexa Mini for that kind of money.

 

[Zack Birlew]

Also that guy that bought the Venice, I saw that video. It's a great camera, but that seemed like an odd purchase to me. Im not sure why you wouldn't buy an Alexa Mini for that kind of money.

I know right? I thought that's what it was from the thumbnail image too until he pulled it out and I was surprised it was the Venice. The Venice is a tasteful choice but aside from the Venice 2 I know the Alexa Mini or LF are the end all be all for some folks (at least for now). He's gotta cut down that Promist though, even a 1/8 can be too much sometimes! :laugh:

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

All I can say is that if your camera takes months to sell, that's YOUR problem. There's a site called eBay where you can have 7 day auctions for stuff. Ever heard of it? LOL

I suppose there is a little bit of regret from people who didn't buy the right camera for the job. ENG is probably best done with a GH something, not a Dragon 6K. Weddings, same thing. It's like buying a Phase One to shoot football, and then making a video about how you are selling your gear because it's too slow, or too big, blah blah.

 

[Zack Birlew]

All I can say is that if your camera takes months to sell, that's YOUR problem. There's a site called eBay where you can have 7 day auctions for stuff. Ever heard of it? LOL

I suppose there is a little bit of regret from people who didn't buy the right camera for the job. ENG is probably best done with a GH something, not a Dragon 6K. Weddings, same thing. It's like buying a Phase One to shoot football, and then making a video about how you are selling your gear because it's too slow, or too big, blah blah.

Exactly, much like the computer issues, if you are down to get a RED camera you surely would be knowledgeable enough to know that you would need beefier hardware for 4K/6K/8K RAW compared to typical H.264/5 or Prores but apparently not according to some of those videos.

 

[Luka Sanader]

its really strange but i have never heard anyone saying i have just purchased Alexa Mini LF and i am going back to my C300 or BM... and yet there is allways a guy on a youtube making a video why he is leaving Red and going back to some sort of DSLR or Pocket6k!
In factkt this has more to do with a type of the people that think that buying a "pro" camera will get them more work or better results. And ofcourse they will buy 25k VV Red before they would buy Arri mnini LF. buying 80k camera you have to know what are you doing, buying 20K camera only thing you need is a dream and good line of credit

 

[Les Hillis]

As the image quality of digital camera's keeps improving, it becomes more obvious to me what it's really about is what you put in front of the camera and how you use the camera to capture it. Which is how it always was anyway.

16mm and Super-8 film did have legit quality and workflow limitations, but the limited options just made it more obvious when crap was crap.

Nowadays, I think it's not so clear, with so much superficially good-looking technically proficient crap around, and more readily available camera's to shoot it with, and more and easier ways to view it.

People just couldn't do that before, at least not on the scale we see it now, and that wasn't a bad thing in some ways.

At best, RED provide tools of a quality level that allows your audience to see and hear and feel what it is you're trying to convey without the medium itself distracting them or stifling your creative uses of the medium, if that's what you want to do, or are capable of doing. And most people aren't and never have been, that's nothing new either and no big deal.

On top of that, there's the simple fact that some end-use cases simply don't allow time or resources for making the most of the equipment that you do have access to. Quality tools are a double-edged sword that can make the good look better and the bad look worse.

There's no reason I can see within the RED ecosystem itself for not using RED. It's not perfect, but it is what it is and you make it work or you don't.

At the same time there are valid reasons why you wouldn't use a RED camera in some cases.

I wouldn't say RED have ever been very proscriptive about how their camera's are used, but they've sure taken a lot of heat from people feeling the need to vent or bash them over what it is they themselves chose to buy into or use them for.

RED aimed themselves early on at the 'professional' (and 'aspiring professional') market and user-base. It was always debatable what that meant, but it clearly meant they were never aiming for the broadest possible market. I think it also helps explain some of their decisions and product choices, and also helps (me anyway) make sense of some of the criticism they get.

Imo, RED are still the only ones providing a viable alternative to using S35mm and higher motion picture film, having already made 16mm film capture obsolete for all but special use cases.

What people make of that is up to them, not RED.

I'd say RED just need to keep listening to the feedback and keep improving what they realistically can, while advancing the image capturing capabilities of their camera's like they have been so far. And I see nothing to suggest they're doing anything other than that.