Thoughts after seeing CHE

[Brandon Fraley]

There's a whole chunk of Once Upon A Time in Mexico where Rodriquez clearly bumped a switch and started rolling 29.97. Maybe directors shouldn't shoot their own stuff after all... :umm:

just to be clear, those shots you speak of were quick things they did with a small miniDV camera, rather that the F900 used for the rest of the film. And yes, those shots are ugly as hell and completely take me out of the movie

 

[Alexis Hanawalt]

just to be clear, those shots you speak of were quick things they did with a small miniDV camera, rather that the F900 used for the rest of the film. And yes, those shots are ugly as hell and completely take me out of the movie

That makes sense.

 

[rod bradley]

Most heroes are not 100% heroes 100% of the time-- as much as we might like them to be. Or they might like to be. Some artists are disciplined and consistent, others are catch as catch can. And everything inbetween. The Red is a tool that can use some help. Haphazard nail banging can occasional result in bent nails. And maybe it weakens the house and maybe it doesn't matter.

 

[Nick Wolf]

Sometimes the house doesnt appear at first to even be a house to the inhabitants...A nightmare is also a type of dream.

This is a short by SS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErwpFH3AHws


DogDay

 

[David Battistella]

Matt,

Thanks for this considered opinion.

David

 

[Harrison Diamond]

If I were Jannard, I'd just shell out a few million and make a low budget film that ends all questions. Buy a great screenplay, hire a good producer & director and get David Mullens to Dp it. If the story is good, marketing also, it'll pay for itself.

I'd love to see this just for its own sake. Red should really do this. A project conducive to showing off the very best of the RED.

I put my money on the next sensor. RED One is a great first timer but please let Epic be the real thing.

Most people probably won't appreciate this, but the Faith No More song Epic is on their album The Real Thing. A line from the song: "You want it all but you can't have it"

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Most people probably won't appreciate this, but the Faith No More song Epic is on their album The Real Thing. A line from the song: "You want it all but you can't have it"

HAHAHAHA I hope not

Also understand me correctly. I love RED and how it performs. I've had it for more or less two months+ and it has already done 10 big productions. It performs nicely but not without hick ups etc. This camera is GREAT but there's still things that could be better. This is constantly worked on from the RED team, so give it time and it will truly kick ass. I just hope that certain things that are issues in the long run gets fixed with time and I'm pretty sure that our guys are working on it.

Fredrik Callinggard

 

[Bing Bailey]

at the end of the day nobody in a theatre is thinking about clipped high lights. does the film tell a story and if it does and if it engages people then it succeeds. I know we are all here because we want the best images possible but those images are meaningless if you get obsessed with them and not the story you are telling. there are circumstances were clipped high lights might be part of that story telling. maybe its to show the harsh glare of the jungle. the strobing effect in private ryan used to be considered an absolute sin image wise but it was used very very effectively to tell a story. we aren't making images in isolation. too many people are too quick to point fingers and tell everyone else how smart they are and how this is wrong and that is wrong. its all about choices. if thats the way you wanted your images to be then its not wrong.

 

[C.H.Haskell]

Thanks for sharing, and best of luck with your picture!

 

[Finner]

at the end of the day nobody in a theatre is thinking about clipped high lights. does the film tell a story and if it does and if it engages people then it succeeds. I know we are all here because we want the best images possible but those images are meaningless if you get obsessed with them and not the story you are telling. there are circumstances were clipped high lights might be part of that story telling. maybe its to show the harsh glare of the jungle. the strobing effect in private ryan used to be considered an absolute sin image wise but it was used very very effectively to tell a story. we aren't making images in isolation. too many people are too quick to point fingers and tell everyone else how smart they are and how this is wrong and that is wrong. its all about choices. if thats the way you wanted your images to be then its not wrong.

It was clearly stated by Matt that this review was based strictly on cinematography. It is a review of how the camera performed and how images appeared on screen. Bringing story into the mix on this means nothing. Leaving this to a discussion on pro's/con's of the image and learning from problems is very helpful. The DR of the red is a fair bit weaker then film but learning the limitations and work arounds for getting the best image possible is far more valuable then saying it is all about story. If it was simply all about story then we should all be shooting on mini dv.

 

[BradWright]

It sure puts the Bleeding part into the Bleeding Edge. Scopes are really essential to proper exposure due to the hard digital clipping on both ends, highs and lows. I've spent the last year trying to convince everyone I know why they need to use them on every shoot, but so far, most people just don't get it. Hopefully, there will be lots of screwed up scenes in big movies to motivate people to read a waveform monitor, an rgb parade, and a vectorscope.

 

[Uli Plank]

While I second the use of scopes, I have to mention there is no low end clipping. Your image just get's buried in noise eventually. Even the question when it is buried – i.e. unusable – is a matter of taste to some degree.

Regards,

Uli

 

[Bing Bailey]

It was clearly stated by Matt that this review was based strictly on cinematography. It is a review of how the camera performed and how images appeared on screen. Bringing story into the mix on this means nothing. Leaving this to a discussion on pro's/con's of the image and learning from problems is very helpful. The DR of the red is a fair bit weaker then film but learning the limitations and work arounds for getting the best image possible is far more valuable then saying it is all about story. If it was simply all about story then we should all be shooting on mini dv.

not taking the bait finner. it is all about story and I was refering in general to getting lost in the details and not seeing the bigger picture. never said a good image isn't desirable

 

[P Andersson]

I thought everyone here knows already that color negative film has more dynamic range than any digital cinema camera on the market... so why are people acting surprised that one can spot examples in CHE when this becomes apparent when shooting in extremely harsh conditions?

Now whether it is a mistake or not when it happens, I can't say, though Soderberg is of the school of "happy mistakes" when shooting, i.e. not control every element to the nth degree and let some roughness come into the shot. The grain level in his "Oceans 11" remake for example is not always consistent from shot to shot, by design -- maybe not "design" in the sense that it was exactly how he planned on every shot, but "design" in the sense that it was intentionally not consistent. And it's not because Soderberg doesn't know what he is doing, because he's shown time and time again that he can shoot slick stuff as well as anyone. I think he likes "mistakes", that's all, whether he causes them deliberately or creates conditions where they happen naturally.

But I think some people here just have to wrap their heads around the fact that color negative film currently has more dynamic range than digital.

very well said, thanks

 

[Matt Uhry]

at the end of the day nobody in a theatre is thinking about clipped high lights. does the film tell a story and if it does and if it engages people then it succeeds.

Yes, but also No. SS is his own boss so he writes the rule book. If you are a DP and try to shoot like SS did on "Guerilla" the Studio would fire your ass before you make it to set on day 2.

If it's a no rules indie film self-financed world you live in: go wild, do whatever, and if people call you on it say you meant it to look like that !

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

 

[Bruce Allen]

Thanks so much Matt for that thorough analysis... that really gave us who couldn't see the film a good idea. Until I've seen it I can't really give my 2c, can I? Although it'll probably not be the Cannes version when it comes out, right?

The crazy reactions to your and other peoples' posts by people who haven't seen the film are really funny... as far as I can tell, the 3 people posting here who have *actually seen* the Cannes cut - eg you, film101 and Akube - present a pretty consistent picture.

Congrats on the great reaction to Los Bastardos. Hope it gets snapped up for lots of cash and distributed well. I can't wait to see it.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Matt Uhry]

at the end of the day nobody in a theatre is thinking about clipped high lights. does the film tell a story and if it does and if it engages people then it succeeds.

Yes, but also No. SS is his own boss so he writes the rule book. A cool situation to be in, but it does not apply to me, at least most of the time.

If you are hired to be a DP on a film, and try to shoot like SS did on "Guerilla" the Studio would fire your ass before you make it to set on day 2.

If it's a no rules indie film self-financed world you live in go wild, do whatever and if people call you on it say you meant it to look like that ! Great things can come of it... I'm all for it. I actually am interested in being able to do both.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

 

[Christopher Nagel]

If I were Jannard, I'd just shell out a few million and make a low budget film that ends all questions. Buy a great screenplay, hire a good producer & director and get David Mullens to Dp it. If the story is good, marketing also, it'll pay for itself.

As it happens, I have just about a hundred pages of GOLD sitting right here, ready to shoot!

Chris

 

[Antoine MARTEAU]

I am glad I came at NAB, I saw the footage by myself from Argentine and Guerilla and it was fantastic... I came to the NAB show to confirm my feeling about RED... I was not desapointed... And I ordered my camera when I came back...
#4022 seems so far to me right now. But time will come...
Keep the good work RED!

Antoine MARTEAU From France

 

[Rudi Herbert]

www.mattuhry.com[/url]

Matt, So RIGHT you are, so much so in fact that I don't mind this statement being posted twice!

And yes, this started STRICTLY as a review of the merits of the films based on their IMAGE QUALITY, nobody ever talked about script, characters, plot, storyline, and the like. Story is king, but that ain't quite what we're talking about right now.