There's a mattebox, then there's a mattebox.

[Jay A. Kelley]

I've been working with my Arri MB-20II for a while now. And I just want to throw this out there:

RED needs a mattebox, badly, and there is none better than the ARRI MB-20II.

That said, it's expensive.. No doubt about it, but I do believe it's worth every penny. If you sit down with the thing, and look it over, carefully, the amount of thought and engineering that has gone into this item is simply amazing.

There's a lot of matteboxes out there now and some of them are pretty good, but upon close inspection it's easy to see why ARRI is the bar against which all else are judged.

For those of you considering your RED. Take a good hard look at the MB-20II. And if you expect to work with outside crews, then be careful, because if it's not an ARRI, you'll lose some points in their eyes.

I bascially "introduced" the REDUser community to Abel Cine almost a year ago when I did a group buy of the Mattebox for Arri. (I don't mean I discovered them, I simply mean that a lot of people learned about Abel for the first time during the group buy).

I had a lot of pressure on me since it was my responsibility to pick the Vendor we would work with.. It was down to two companies, and they are both good, but in the end, Abel won. Since that time I have grown to realize just how wonderful a company like Abel is. In a nutshell, the have the prices of B&H combined with some of the best customer service around. If you need anything, you should always start there. Or go to B&H and find what you want, and then call Abel. Odds are they have the same screen on their computer just making sure B&H does not beat them!! :w00t:

RED is a wonderful camera, but it's not always easy to navigate the mine field that is RED accessories. A place like Abel can make the search a little easier.

There have been many times when I have wanted something and Mitch or Steve have said "you know Jay I can sell this to you but so and so makes a better product, you should call them first". They do look out for you there.

Why the advertisement? I dunno, I guess it's because the folks at ARRI and ABEL have been good to me in ways I cannot begin to describe, and that deserves a shout every now and then. :biggrin:

Jay

 

[mikeburton]

I agree Jay! Arri is by far the most respected and well put together Mattebox on the market right now. And the guys at Abel Cine are awesome! Very helpful and informative.
I bought a RRMicro Mattebox trying to save a buck or twelve That said, it is not an MB20 by far. Don't get me wrong its an okay Mattebox and for the price I am not complaining about it but its far from an MB20 and I sorta wish I would have just splurged a bit on the MB20 in retrospect. When you are on set and moving like hell every second counts and thats when these lesser products begin to show what they are truly made of. Ease of use, durability, reliability and efficiency is what the MB20 is meant for. Its pricey as hell but in the end worth every penny. And yes, there is a bit of a popularity factor to it for all those above reasons.

 

[Steve Gal]

Plus it will have a resale value. This is because they last. Arri is an investment that you can enjoy throughout its life.

 

[Nate Clapp]

I agree. Although I would say MB-14 is even better choice. No zoom will be too big for it. A bit of a pig of a MB though. I tried to cut some corners and bought a Vocas 450, Which is actually a great matte box. I have two complaints, though, one of which I kind of knew going in. It is not as big as MB-14 so while my cooke 20-100 physically fits into it (something arri mb-20 couldn't do) I have to be very careful about vignetting. I basically have no tolerance for error at least in 16X9. other lenses not as big front elements, no problem.
Second problem was unexpected. I have ET 19 and 15mm baseplates. generally you slide camera onto dovetail from rear of dovetail to mount. Unfortunately Vocas didn't design their MB bracket with that in mind. No clearence for dovetail ears, so you essentially can't get a good "approach."

Workaround is mounting dovetail backwards and then mounting camera backwards from that, if you know what i mean. Annoying. Of course, Arri stuff wouldn't have that problem as they came up with dovetail idea to begin with.
Have not tried it with Red's mount, which I have, but promptly went into the junk drawer when I got it.

 

[Evin Grant]

I agree, the MB-14 is the way to go. I just picked up an older one and it's a beast but it's the beast that everyone wants at the prom. The same can be said about the FF4, there really is no substitute.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

I have an MB12 and an MB16. Both top notch.

 

[Corrado Silveri]

MB20 here. Great piece. Worth every cent, imho.

 

[Bruce Allen]

Jay, you are very right... BTW, are you and Mitch going to get a deal for us on the MB-28 (the MB-16 successor) when it comes out?

I agree, the MB-14 is the way to go. I just picked up an older one and it's a beast but it's the beast that everyone wants at the prom. The same can be said about the FF4, there really is no substitute.

Hahaha Evin, you have joined the dark side

NOW am I allowed to call the Chrosziels plasticky without you getting pissed at me? :shiftyph34r:

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

Loved your group buy Jay, I am very happy with my MB20II and FF4 that came out of it, I am very happy I decided to go with top gear from day one - it´s definetly paying in the longer run.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jay, you are very right... BTW, are you and Mitch going to get a deal for us on the MB-28 (the MB-16 successor) when it comes out?



Hahaha Evin, you have joined the dark side

NOW am I allowed to call the Chrosziels plasticky without you getting pissed at me? :shiftyph34r:

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

I sent a letter to ARRI last night when I was thinkinig about all of this. I said that a "new generation" of RED owners was now here and this would be a cool time to do something.. But Eric was EXTREMELY clear that the deal would never happen again.

But I always think "never say never"!!!

With such a weak Dollar, ARRI has raised prices lately, so that plus the fact that the deal was SO damn aggressive, I dunno...

I was hoping to work out something with their light packaanother group buy with ARRI, but that kind of died on the shelf. I am thinking of trying to get it going again.

I have a question for all of you about a group buy, but I'm going to start a new thread on it.

Jay

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'm holding out for an Arri MB-28... Hope it's everything I think it will be when released.

 

[Mitch Gross]

A big thank you to Jay for all the work he did and continues to do. We were are are very happy to be a part of this community and helping everyone here.

A couple of things:

- When the MB28 eventually debuts, we'll be working with Arri to get it out to everyone. It's essentially a 6.6x6.6 version of the MB20, so while not a replacement for the MB14 it does much of what people need without being such a monster. It will also be lighter and less expensive than the MB14. Don't hold your breath; it is months away at best.
- We're going to have the new Arri MMB-1 and MFF-1 kits available soon, as in very soon. I'll post all about it as soon as I can.
- Lastly, we do sell the Vocas MB450 as well and I'm not going to criticize that product. It can do a lot and it is less expensive than the Arri MB20-II. But I will say that it is not true that it will work with the Cooke zooms while the MB20-II will not. In fact the Arri mattebox offers better coverage than the Vocas for these lenses. This is a bit of erroneous info that got out there a long time ago and has been repeated far to often. Here's a comparison between the two from Jim Elias of Arri:

"The advantage of the Vocas 450 over the Arri MB20 is the fact that the Vocas does fit on a Cooke 18-100 / 20-100 which the Arri MB 20 doesn't.."

This is false. With the 20-100, the MB-20 is the better choice. With the 18-100, the MB-20 will work and the Vocas will not.

1) Fundamentals

* Neither mattebox will work with these zooms in full silent cine
format, which is why we're all used to thinking of these as "six by six"
lenses. However, in the reduced 1.78 format of the RED sensor, the smaller filters will cover. For my tests, I used a 435 with ground glass K2.47410.0, having markings at 24mm x 13.5mm. This is larger (and thus less forgiving) than the RED active 4K sensor area of 22.2mm x 12.6mm.
* Throughput for both matteboxes is very similar, as can be
expected from their similar sizes. The differences in applicability between the V-450 and MB-20 stem from basic differences in construction, modular for the MB-20 versus fixed for the V-450.


2) Results with Cooke 20-100

* The long-discontinued Cooke 20-100 could barely cover the
format, with noticeable shading in the corners. Anyone evaluating the 20-100 for mattebox coverage should look at the lens coverage without mattebox first to avoid confusion between lens vignetting and mattebox vignetting. (This is also good standard procedure for any initial lens/mattebox evaluation.)
* To work with the V-450, the front of the lens is pushed through
the rear filter tray stage. Filtering is thus via the middle full-functional tray stage and the front fixed horizontal-only stage.
* To work with the MB-20, the rear bellows adapter K2.65028.0 can
be detached. Light-trapping is then via a donut, but both full-functional tray stages can be used.


3) Results with Cooke 18-100

* The V-450 will not work with the 18-100, as the lens front
diameter of 150mm is too large for the mattebox rear (144mm). The rear interface of the V-450 is not detachable.
* MB-20: as with the 20-100, one can remove the rear bellows
adapter, resulting in sufficient clearance for the lens front. At 18mm with two trays, the mattebox was very close without cutting on the ARRI corners, which means the RED 4K active frame will be clear.



Finally, thanks for all the kind words. We really do aim to please by offering great products, great prices and most importantly great support.

 

[Gary Ploj]

Arri group deal?

Arri group deal?

I missed that Arri deal...Was is that great that they (Arri -Eric) doesn't want to offer again. If that's the case, that's a shame.

I'm sorry about the current global currency market...but that's how the world works. It goes up and down. I work back & forth from US/ UK and sometimes in Canada and recently their dollar has dropped significantly in the past month...so that sucks but you bite the bullet. You work out a deal for both parties to benefit...but sometimes it doesn't work out. Usually, they get the better deal.

Hopefully, Eric will agree again...so we all can benefit to a great products and company like Arri.

 

[Emmanuel Cambier]

MB20II here, just loving it.

Emmanuel

 

[Eric De Fino]

Question... I found a MB-14 but apparently only takes 15mm rods. Can I use it with the rod adapter?

 

[Catherine Russell]

MB 14 15mm to 19mm Rod Adapter

MB 14 15mm to 19mm Rod Adapter

Question... I found a MB-14 but apparently only takes 15mm rods. Can I use it with the rod adapter?

\

Arri makes an adapter for that mattebox to go from 15mm to 19mm, actually. It is their part number K2.43344.0

Please call or e-mail for a price quote, if you're interested.

 

[Mike Prevette]

I've used my MB-20II successfully with both the 18-100 and 20-100. It requires a doughnut, and the removal of the rubber ring if you want to use the 138mm ring, but it does function.

 

[Evin Grant]

I'm holding out for an Arri MB-28... Hope it's everything I think it will be when released.

I got to play with an MB-28 today at Abelcine LA. It's a prototype but very nice. Basically just a scaled up MB-20, however it doesn't feel nearly as beefy as the MB-14. Over all it's a very nice lightweight option for 6x6.

 

[Chris Gearhart]

MB20 and the FF4 here too, and I missed the group buy, but Abel Cine was fantastic to deal with. I am loving the Arri gear.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks for that, Evin! Nice to get a small report someone who's seen one.