Theatrical Trailer up!

[Jesse Johnson]

Hey everyone,

We're nearing completion on a short film we shot with the RED. The theatrical trailer was finished recently, here's the link:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=49815419

I apologize in advance for the quality, we had to massively compress the trailer for it to upload on myspace. We're getting ready to launch our company website at which point we will have the trailers available in HD.

Justin Kirchhoff of Digital Shakedown was the DP on this shoot. If you guys need a talented DP, Justin's your man. I can't say it enough, he is an AMAZING DP! This guy is worth his weight in gold! We didn't even have the money for a focus puller so he did it all! Keeping the actors in focus while going hand-held running with them down an alley is no easy task... but he pulled it off. I hope to work with Justin on ALL my films! I HIGHLY recommend him.

Okay... that's enough DP love for now. lol Photos from the shoot are in the pictures section of my reduser profile. Check 'em out and let us know what you think.

Enjoy!

 

[BrandonC]

Whoa! What settings did you use? What mic did you use?

The colors are great! What color chart did you use? A RED one?

 

[Hank Devos]

Honestly, I thought the trailer looked pretty awful.

There were the underexposed shots.. the even expsoure shots.. and the shots with the blown out windows and the under-exposed actors.

all in all I was completely underwhelmed by this footage. Could have achieved the same results with a prosumer camera.

Content wise.. sounded interesting.. was just not a fan of the look.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I wont comment on the story...
but the images looked really flat and dull.
like, no color correction was applied and the cinematography is lifeless.

hope this doesnt come off as harsh, im just trying to give constructive criticism to help salvage the visuals.


ps.. the brandonC post is a little obvious.. not fooling anyone
haha but A for effort

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Honestly, I thought the trailer looked pretty awful.

There were the underexposed shots.. the even expsoure shots.. and the shots with the blown out windows and the under-exposed actors.

all in all I was completely underwhelmed by this footage. Could have achieved the same results with a prosumer camera.

Content wise.. sounded interesting.. was just not a fan of the look.

I appreciate your honesty, but that was completely unnecessary and flat out rude. We did the best with what little we had. This was virtually a no-budget short. Besides... myspace ALWAYS greatly reduces the quality of uploaded videos.

I don't know what their default settings are for their video players but the footage looks far better on our calibrated NTSC monitors.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

I wont comment on the story...
but the images looked really flat and dull.
like, no color correction was applied and the cinematography is lifeless.

hope this doesnt come off as harsh, im just trying to give constructive criticism to help salvage the visuals.


ps.. the brandonC post is a little obvious.. not fooling anyone
haha but A for effort

Like I said... myspace sucks. It really does look flat but it's nowhere near that bad on our monitors. But point taken.

By the way, I don't know who BrandonC is. It says on his profile he joined on 10-31-07. I don't know why he hasn't posted till now. That really looks bad for us... lol

 

[Andrew Walker]

I wont comment on the story...
but the images looked really flat and dull.
like, no color correction was applied and the cinematography is lifeless.

hope this doesnt come off as harsh, im just trying to give constructive criticism to help salvage the visuals.


ps.. the brandonC post is a little obvious.. not fooling anyone
haha but A for effort

I have to agree with Zakaree on this. The cinematography is unexciting as it feels very far away. Seems from the trailer at least that you had shots in there that were way too wide. You need to punch in and make people feel like they aren't watching something but their apart of what's going on. I know not the easiest feat to pull off on the internet. But even as a photographic stand point it was very empty. Got to fill that frame. Still it looks like you put some effort into it. Also the sound was a little distant, like it hasn't been sweetened yet.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

I have to agree with Zakaree on this. The cinematography is unexciting as it feels very far away. Seems from the trailer at least that you had shots in there that were way too wide. You need to punch in and make people feel like they aren't watching something but their apart of what's going on. I know not the easiest feat to pull off on the internet. But even as a photographic stand point it was very empty. Got to fill that frame. Still it looks like you put some effort into it. Also the sound was a little distant, like it hasn't been sweetened yet.

I appreciate your comments Andrew, the constructive criticism (without bashing me) is appreciated.

There are a lot of tight shots in the film, I just didn't use very many at all in the trailer. I like to use a combination of both throughout the film. Like you said, punch it in so the audience feels like they're a part of it. But I also like the wide shots to give it some scale.

I think the reason it looks so flat and lifeless, besides myspace, is because for the trailer I didn't have a lot of time to finesse the visuals or the audio, we just wanted to put something out there. The myspace page isn't going to be our primary outlet for the promotion. So we just used RED ALERT for a quick color correction pass, but I also desaturated the footage to give it an emotionally cold feel.

When the edit is finished, I guess I'll use After Effects for the CC. Just playing around with it earlier on the shot in the coffee house where the windows were blown out, I was able to balance it all out and make the actors the predominately lit elements of the shot. Speaking of which, I have AE CS3 for Mac. Is AE CS4 much better? I haven't really read up on it very much. I'd rather hear comments from users than a sales pitch from Adobe.

And yes... we haven't sweetened the audio or recorded our ADR yet.

 

[Andrew Walker]

I know you were eager to put the work you have done up on here for people to critic but I would say next time just give little clips. Mainly the "wow" clips. But you are getting what you wanted, which is feedback. Also there are a lot of other places you could put the clips for others to view that isn't myspace video. But if you were going to do that I would say watermark your stuff because most of those sites have some tricky wording in their conditions for uploading onto their site.

Once you get it all dialed in I would say repost it and maybe you might get some different responses. Also be careful with those wide shots. I know you want to show the world but sometimes the world is very boring.

 

[Roberto B]

man.. now it is probably too late for kicking up it other than improved cc.. but go ahead dude.. do not lose your per·se·ver·ance :construction:

 

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

I'll be really interested to see how it works out when you've had time to work on the audio like you said, I didn't have anything against the visuals myself the audio just didn't seem to live up to what the trailer was trying to sell, but I'm reading that will be fixed so I'll wait and see.

 

[Hank Devos]

I appreciate your honesty, but that was completely unnecessary and flat out rude. We did the best with what little we had. This was virtually a no-budget short. Besides... myspace ALWAYS greatly reduces the quality of uploaded videos.

I don't know what their default settings are for their video players but the footage looks far better on our calibrated NTSC monitors.

nah.. rude would have been if I started to personally attack you for no reason.. which i didn't.. and won't..

If you don't want people's opinions don't bother posting. I took the time to watch the trailer and I gave you my opinion; there wasn't anything in the trailer that benefitted from shooting on the red camera as far as I could see.

I stand by my assessment. If myspace makes it look so awful then why bother posting a message about how awesome the Photography is when it obviously won't be seen in the 'crappy' myspace version.

I'll gladly watch a newer version with more finished visuals and audio. But I don't guarantee I will like it any better.

peas.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

I've messed around with noise floor reduction filters and sometimes got rid of a little excess reverb. Give that a try if you have one and see if it may help. Also a little punch up on the lower frequencies may help your actors seem a bit tougher yet, just don't over do it.

About the color, if you are planing on putting something up on the www perhaps give it a go at grading on an LCD. It might give you a better idea of what you'll be dealing with, though that may be a dumb idea... just a thought. Besides that I think the slight desat could work, but check it out with a bit more contrast which was already mentioned before.

And perhaps crop into some of the shots if you want, no? I mean you got pleeeenty of resolution to spare for the www, no?

Post it again once you got a chance to work on it more, I'd like to see how it turns out. I wonder what else may be there for the edit.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I stand by my assessment. If myspace makes it look so awful then why bother posting a message about how awesome the Photography is when it obviously won't be seen in the 'crappy' myspace version.

I agree with the why post on myspace comment and the hyping up of the dp's skills, when the preview clearly shows a lack of skilled composition and style.

I understand this is what your looking for "feedback" before posting eslewhere.
so take these comments as helpful rather than hurtful.

but do try to find the best shots to post. im sure the DP would not want what is shown to be his calling card to the entire RED world.. especially when it is hyped up to be amazing:/

 

[Jesse Johnson]

If you don't want people's opinions don't bother posting. I took the time to watch the trailer and I gave you my opinion; there wasn't anything in the trailer that benefitted from shooting on the red camera as far as I could see.

Nothing you could see benefited from shooting on RED? :huh:

How about getting a cinematic quality to your project? Making it look like an actual movie? What other reason do I need to shoot on RED? I didn't know you needed some other reason to shoot on RED.

If myspace makes it look so awful then why bother posting a message about how awesome the Photography is when it obviously won't be seen in the 'crappy' myspace version.

I just wanted to show everyone what we were doing. I appreciate the technical feedback from everyone else, but in the end it's nowhere near being finished. When I said we were almost finished with it in my first post, (I should have specified), I meant we're almost finished with the first edit. Picture and sound work has just barely begun.

We actually made a movie on a shoestring budget that looks pretty damn good and I'm proud of that. To attack it technically is rather pointless because the camera shoots RAW. In a way, nothing you shoot is set in stone. And the shots you pointed out in your post as being hideous, were fixed in less than 15 minutes using After Effects CS3. The post flexibility of RED footage is amazing!

I'll gladly watch a newer version with more finished visuals and audio. But I don't guarantee I will like it any better.

I appreciate your willingness to graciously grant me an audience again But unless you're actually going to offer some suggestions on how to improve the visuals rather than just talk about how horrible it is, I don't care much for your input. I'm not trying to be rude, but that's how I feel. I'm not going to get my feelings hurt if you bash the visuals while offering suggestions on how to improve them like everyone else did. But you didn't do that. And that's why it was rude, not constructive.

 

[Tolin]

I have (And now I'm being honest with you) seen trailers made by 16-17 year old kids on consumer cameras that looked better than this.

You can't expect shooting with RED will make your movie look cinematic. Color grading, exposure balance, editing, angles - All this plays a major part in how the audience sees the movie.

The poor acting and sound quality is something that can be overseen, but the way the trailer is put together just makes it look so amatureish.
The story looked exciting though, but then you see this guy in a mask with a gun - And you say "How old was this guy now?". Showing us a bunch of bad guys will not make us wanna see the movie- The other way around really. Keep the bad guys in a cloud, and that will build up this curiosity that in the end makes us want to see the film.

So basically- Work on the compositing and visual effects As for the audio, I know you have to work with what you got, but myself I'm prepared to dub the entire movie if I'm forced to - Cos I never settle for OK, and neither should you. If you think myspace video makes crappy quality - Find somewhere else to upload the video.


And you call this a Theatrical Trailer, and still you claim the movie was just shot and the visual and sound editing has barely begun.
Who in their right mind would make a Theatrical Trailer out of raw footage? Exactly. I think you simply don't want to admit not being all too experienced in the area of editing- Or you just couldn't wait to show people what you've been working with (In which case you haven't really got the rights to hype up over critisicm).

I'm sure with some work this movie could actually become good (or better). After all, the story caught my interest Keep up the good work.

 

[Adrian Correia]

Jesse,

possibly you could post a finely tuned trailer on something like vimeo? I think that it might help judge the footage a little better, because the compression on the myspace is doing nothing but hurting you. Good luck!

 

[Jesse Johnson]

You know what, I'll accept that right now the trailer doesn't look all that great from a technical standpoint. It can and will be perfected. I apologize if I acted rather viscerally toward some of you, but I don't exactly take it too well when someone tells me my trailer looks worse than one made by a 16 year-old with a consumer camera. In this industry... that's pretty much the worse thing you could say to someone!

But to those of you who offered suggestions on how to better the visuals... I thank you. All your collective advice has been well received and will be put into practice to better the project. Granted, we're almost done editing, but to have posted a trailer that was barely worked on as far as color correction and sound was an open invitation to... well you get the idea. :blush:

And when we have a better version of the trailer, it will NOT be uploaded to myspace... but rather to Vimeo. I just finished creating an account. But if our company website is ready before then, we'll have the trailer available in HD.

Yes, I may have been taken back by some of the comments but please know that the criticisms you've given have been taken constructively and will be put to use.

But MOST importantly, please do NOT take this un-finessed footage as a calling card for our DP. He really has done some amazing work and I don't want my post-production carelessness to tarnish his name. He's a great guy and if you saw his demo reel you'd know that this trailer "incident" was all my fault. So please don't hold anything against him.

Well, I don't think I'll be posting on here any time soon... I've got work to do. To those of you who offered encouragement with your advice... thank you. I really needed it. :biggrin:

 

[Roberto B]

dude.. work work work.. learn learn learn.. work work work.. don't bother more than that.. seems obvious your work needs a lot of both.. don't blame myspace for nothing.. you can get the opinion of others here as a good start.. other than this?

don't bother yourself with more than that.. the man is evil by nature.. the more you ask the less you have.. seems obvious your work needs you.. more than everyone else.. go and get it :weight_lift:

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Not all of us are marketing geniuses... and some of us don't give a crap bout it... I don't even want money for what I do (I know, I know...) Often I can't hold back and show people half finished stuff because I really need feedback, to make it better... so I don't get hung up on a little sentence on MySpace, however I understand the reaction regardless of how raw it may be.

That said, I suspect that if you took a bit more time on the shot selection and edit then we might see the skills mentioned. And I wish you went into the editing with the energy you are using up on this thread so that I can see the piece sooner. In the end I am just a selfish bastard wanting to be entertained