The Update Thread

[Robert Eder]

Hi there,

Can somebody please do a roundup on what´s happening with all the different upgrade paths at the moment. I don´t get it and reading 191 pages of posts is not my thing.

Highly appreciate and thanks,

Rob

 

[Michael Hastings]

That price will be a here today gone tomorrow thing..... but sure you can upgrade down the road.. but it will cost at least twice that $10k price to do so.

This deal only exists because of our immediate inability to keep up with demand for Scarlet-W and we are doing everything we can to catch up.. offloading some of that demand to Epic-W does that, even at the expense of our bottom line.

Us extending this to existing Scarlet-Ws makes no business or logistical sense whatsoever though... so enjoy it while it lasts.

Of course.. if too many people do it.. then it swings the other way and we very well may end up having an extreme backorder of Epic-W as well just like when we did this with Raven to Scarlet-W.. so the whole pay attention thing really is important here. I'm not gonna lie to you.. this whole thing could backfire very quickly if you don't have your eye on the button.

You will have more than normal amount time to pay for this level up with a clever idea presented to me by Peter (our Financial adult supervision guy) while we were drunk together in Tokyo a few weeks ago.... but you should try as hard as you can to get your deposit in that first day to make sure this isn't a jump from one waiting in line to another.

Don't think this should upset Brent too much:

What will the deposit be?

Any other info on this drunken payment plan?

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

That price will be a here today gone tomorrow thing..... but sure you can upgrade down the road.. but it will cost at least twice that $10k price to do so.

This deal only exists because of our immediate inability to keep up with demand for Scarlet-W and we are doing everything we can to catch up.. offloading some of that demand to Epic-W does that, even at the expense of our bottom line.

Us extending this to existing Scarlet-Ws makes no business or logistical sense whatsoever though... so enjoy it while it lasts.

Of course.. if too many people do it.. then it swings the other way and we very well may end up having an extreme backorder of Epic-W as well just like when we did this with Raven to Scarlet-W.. so the whole pay attention thing really is important here. I'm not gonna lie to you.. this whole thing could backfire very quickly if you don't have your eye on the button.

You will have more than normal amount time to pay for this level up with a clever idea presented to me by Peter (our Financial adult supervision guy) while we were drunk together in Tokyo a few weeks ago.... but you should try as hard as you can to get your deposit in that first day to make sure this isn't a jump from one waiting in line to another.

Is there going to be as fast of a here and gone with Epic MX/Dragon upgraders? I'm personally not in need of 8K this very second, and probably won't have 10+K together in less than a month from now. But would hate to miss out on what i'm assuming will be the last chance for Epic MX and Dragons to switch over.

 

[D. O'Bryan]

Don't think this should upset Brent too much:

What will the deposit be?

Any other info on this drunken payment plan?

+1. I know everyone's waiting on specs but given how quick all of us switchers are going to have to place orders in hopes of getting the deal (and landing somewhere resembling the front of the line) it would be awesome for some tips on how we should be getting the financials ready for the big day.

 

[Josh Becker]

***(So will the Epic-W be the same specs as the Stormtrooper (S35, 4K ProRes proxies)?)*** see edit

Can't wait to hear the details. I am a little concerned because I could have agencies/post-houses say no to 8K due to file sizes and workflow, so I could run the risk of having to crop to 4K in order to get RAW. That would be a bummer.

Either way, I've got Oct 11th marked on my calendar. I'll probably be on a shoot that day but I'll be watching the forum and Facebook group for posts, maybe I'll have an emergency 10-2

EDIT: Saw someone else mention that Jarred said that it won't have the same specs as the Stormtrooper. Hmm...

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

my guess:

Weapon Helium: higher data/framerates and 4k prores
Epic W: lower data/framerates and 2k prores (so nothing in 8k over 24 or 30p)


I think Red will allow Magnesium owners to trade sideways to Epic W for a very small fee, like $2500 or less, OR to upgrade to Weapon Helium for $10k

JUST A GUESS but this makes sense

 

[Scot Yount]

So will the Epic-W be the same specs as the Stormtrooper (S35, 4K ProRes proxies)? Can't wait to hear the details. I am a little concerned because I could have agencies/post-houses say no to 8K due to file sizes and workflow, so I could run the risk of having to crop to 4K in order to get RAW. That would be a bummer.

Either way, I've got Oct 11th marked on my calendar. I'll probably be on a shoot that day but I'll be watching the forum and Facebook group for posts, maybe I'll have an emergency 10-2

Josh, I decided to put this into my calendar like you did, but I am sure I won't need it!! It's kind of like putting Christmas, Ramadan, or Hanukkah into your calendar, but fun all the same. I will definitely be onboard for Epic-W!

 

[Matthew Quinn]

Is there going to be as fast of a here and gone with Epic MX/Dragon upgraders? I'm personally not in need of 8K this very second, and probably won't have 10+K together in less than a month from now. But would hate to miss out on what i'm assuming will be the last chance for Epic MX and Dragons to switch over.

way I understand it is, you put down a deposit, then have time to gather money for the rest.

 

[Brody_B]

+1. I know everyone's waiting on specs but given how quick all of us switchers are going to have to place orders in hopes of getting the deal (and landing somewhere resembling the front of the line) it would be awesome for some tips on how we should be getting the financials ready for the big day.

Crack open your piggy bank.

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

way I understand it is, you put down a deposit, then have time to gather money for the rest.

Hopefully the deposit isn't what the Weapon upgrade deposit was. I'd be out already.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

from what has been hinted at.. Think the SW switchers will have more than enough time to save hehe

 

[Josh Becker]

Josh, I decided to put this into my calendar like you did, but I am sure I won't need it!! It's kind of like putting Christmas, Ramadan, or Hanukkah into your calendar, but fun all the same. I will definitely be onboard for Epic-W!

Haha, I know, I'm sure I'll already be on the forum anyway!

Are you at all concerned about the Epic-W possibly having limited frame rates for 8K compared to the Stormtrooper? Personally for me, balance of resolution+sensor+frame rate is huge. It's honestly a little daunting to think I would *have* to capture 8K to get the full field of view of my sensor. And if 8K is limited to 30fps or something, then that means I can never get any slomo (48fps, for example) plus the full sensor FOV. That's kind of a bummer. Of course getting into the nitty gritty, we might learn that a 7K or 6K crop gives us the same sensor size as the Scarlet-W + some slomo options, in which case I'd be pretty tempted to bite. So many questions!

 

[D. O'Bryan]

Crack open your piggy bank.

from what has been hinted at.. Think the SW switchers will have more than enough time to save hehe

Yeah my previous post was in reference to hints about the "drunken financing plan"

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

Haha, I know, I'm sure I'll already be on the forum anyway!

Are you at all concerned about the Epic-W possibly having limited frame rates for 8K compared to the Stormtrooper? Personally for me, balance of resolution+sensor+frame rate is huge. It's honestly a little daunting to think I would *have* to capture 8K to get the full field of view of my sensor. And if 8K is limited to 30fps or something, then that means I can never get any slomo (48fps, for example) plus the full sensor FOV. That's kind of a bummer. Of course getting into the nitty gritty, we might learn that a 7K or 6K crop gives us the same sensor size as the Scarlet-W + some slomo options, in which case I'd be pretty tempted to bite. So many questions!

Of course Epic -W will have limited frame/data rates at 8k, thats what Weapon Helium is for. Epic-W is NOT red's top of the line camera, VV Dragon Weapon and Weapon Helium are. The sensor sizes have been announced, so yes you will probably have to window down to get higher rates. The helium sensor is basically the same size as the dragon, just higher resolution. People will complain about the lack of high frame rates on Epic-W at 8k but Red will say to stick with 6k dragon or move up to weapon Helium. Remember, you can always keep your full field of view at any resolution by shooting Prores.

 

[Jaimy Soares]

Haha, I know, I'm sure I'll already be on the forum anyway!

Are you at all concerned about the Epic-W possibly having limited frame rates for 8K compared to the Stormtrooper? Personally for me, balance of resolution+sensor+frame rate is huge. It's honestly a little daunting to think I would *have* to capture 8K to get the full field of view of my sensor. And if 8K is limited to 30fps or something, then that means I can never get any slomo (48fps, for example) plus the full sensor FOV. That's kind of a bummer. Of course getting into the nitty gritty, we might learn that a 7K or 6K crop gives us the same sensor size as the Scarlet-W + some slomo options, in which case I'd be pretty tempted to bite. So many questions!

I upgraded my Scarlet MX to Epic MX for 1 reason only and that was slomo. After that, year after year I was jusing less and less slomo. I think it's a little overdone. Offcourse it's sweet to have(even in windowed down mode) but for me it's jut not that important anymore.
I reather have an amazing looking image at normal speed with the possibility to use higher iso's. And after hands on with the weapon helium at IBC helium is just that. Amazing. In whatever form it will come.

 

[Josh Becker]

Of course Epic -W will have limited frame/data rates at 8k, thats what Weapon Helium is for. Epic-W is NOT red's top of the line camera, VV Dragon Weapon and Weapon Helium are. The sensor sizes have been announced, so yes you will probably have to window down to get higher rates. The helium sensor is basically the same size as the dragon, just higher resolution. People will complain about the lack of high frame rates on Epic-W at 8k but Red will say to stick with 6k dragon or move up to weapon Helium. Remember, you can always keep your full field of view at any resolution by shooting Prores.

ProRes, yes, but that's most likely limited to 2K and would be limited to the frame rate of 8K (if you want full FOV), so you still don't have a slomo option (again, assuming 8K is limited to 30fps) with full FOV. Also, that's a big drop from 8K RAW to 2K ProRes.

I'm worried that my choices for full FOV will be 8K RAW (big files, client/post might push back) or 2K ProRes, limited to 30fps. If someone says "Can you just give us 4K files?" then I either need to spend time processing all my files down to 4K non-RAW files to hand off (not to mention extra minimags and drives for DIT on set, hopefully not stuck out in the field!) or crop massively into the sensor, enlarging the grain and limiting my FOV/lens options...

It would be great if all 8K RED's had the ability to capture 4K proxies. With resolution that high, it seems like a fair balance. I know CF Weapon guys paid extra to get that as a feature, but man 8K is just kind of a different beast that a lot of us will have to figure out how to tame.

 

[Domenic Barbero]

is there any word on dates on when stuff will be available to order? I feel like there is some secret place giving out info.

 

[Schuster]

Have to ask this again and maybe Brent can chime in but timestamps are still being recognized on the switch over - correct? Similar to how Raven switchers got in front of first day SW orders? Not sure everyone will have the chance to be at their computer on the announcement and would not make total sense for someone that ordered their camera in July to get in front of someone who ordered first day in December.

 

[Josh Becker]

I upgraded my Scarlet MX to Epic MX for 1 reason only and that was slomo. After that, year after year I was jusing less and less slomo. I think it's a little overdone. Offcourse it's sweet to have(even in windowed down mode) but for me it's jut not that important anymore.
I reather have an amazing looking image at normal speed with the possibility to use higher iso's. And after hands on with the weapon helium at IBC helium is just that. Amazing. In whatever form it will come.

Good point. I had an FS700 and shot the hell out of 240fps, so I definitely hear you on kind of getting over slomo. I would love the ability to go up to 48fps, though, with full FOV. And with most of my working being online/compressed/etc, I don't know that the 8K difference would impact a viewer as much as a slow motion shot (obviously assuming the project calls for it). In fact, a few weeks ago I shot 180fps footage for the Minnesota Vikings in their new stadium and today they are bringing me on to shoot a short film conveying the emotion of their biggest game (Vikings vs rival Packers, home turf, brand new stadium, first real game of the season)... and slomo is actually kind of a big part of that. They don't really care if it's finished in 4K or 1080p, but the images wouldn't have the same impact in real-time. And that's where right now I feel like the Scarlet-W hits a sweet spot of giving me a big sensor w/ 5K (great for finishing at 4K) with some slight slomo options at that full FOV...

 

[Michael Hastings]

Of course Epic -W will have limited frame/data rates at 8k, thats what Weapon Helium is for. Epic-W is NOT red's top of the line camera, VV Dragon Weapon and Weapon Helium are. The sensor sizes have been announced, so yes you will probably have to window down to get higher rates. The helium sensor is basically the same size as the dragon, just higher resolution. People will complain about the lack of high frame rates on Epic-W at 8k but Red will say to stick with 6k dragon or move up to weapon Helium. Remember, you can always keep your full field of view at any resolution by shooting Prores.

Higher frame rates would be nice, but I think the ability to do 4K prores is essential or we will have to do major crop sensor to get smaller resolution/file sizes - which would be a bit of a bummer for normal shoots where S35 DOF is important.