The Update Thread

[Christoffer Glans]

Lots of Scarlet-W people waiting that don't want to wait anymore and want to jump into Helium.

I don't know who should get priority.. Epic MX upgraders that missed their upgrade deadline boat to DSMC2 or Scarlet-W customers that have waited too long.

I'm still trying to decide how much I want to punish ourselves for making all the Scarlet-W customers wait.

It likely will be in the form of a $10k move from Scarlet-W to Epic-W.

Epic-W will be $30k new.

Earlier you mentioned that the upgrade cost for Weapon MG owners to Epic-W would be "sideways" at the cost of around $9500 and now it's $10000 for Scarlet-W owners? Isn't that a very strange upgrade price for MG owners to get if it's around the same for Scarlet-W owners? So if I had gotten a Scarlet-W instead I would have saved almost $15000 if I wanted to go Epic-W in the end? So how come us MG owners have to pay the same amount to get the same thing as Scarlet-W owners? In my opinion it makes littles sense and a bit of a strange move against us MG owners in a very great favor to Scarlet-W owners.

 

[Frederik Lindstrøm]

Would LOVE to know what's going on with the new line up - ordered my Epic Dragon to Weapon MG upgrade back in Nov. 2016 and shipped my camera to RED about a month ago for the upgrade - still waiting to get my Weapon... but all good things come to the people that can wait - and no camera company can beat the upgrade path's and service RED offers. I am 100% that no one will feel left out when we get the final product lineup and upgrade paths around Oct. 11th or maybe before - I can feel some pressure on Jarred and Brent is building up in here hehe

 

[Christoffer Glans]

You are claiming unfairness even before you know the details? Also, for clarity’s sake, pretty sure you did not just get the WEAPON Mg DRAGON brain as part of that upgrade, no?

When doing the upgrade to MG we were told to do it otherwise Epic Dragons will have to pay a lot of money or even loose out on being able to upgrade in the future. Many, me as well, jumped on and paid $14 000 for that upgrade. We got the actual camera a few months later, last spring. Now, only around sex months later we hear that the upgrade price for MG owners is $9500 and for Scarlet-W owners $10000. No, we didn't get the MG as a part of an upgrade because no one knew about Helium, but that doesn't change the fact that the Scarlet-W compared to the Weapon MG has a huge difference in price and giving Scarlet-W owners the same upgrade price to get the same camera as MG owners is pretty unfair to all those who jumped on to MG and waited months to get their camera. How exactly is this fair to MG owners?

 

[Adolfo CV]

So if I had gotten a Scarlet-W instead I would have saved almost $15000 if I wanted to go Epic-W in the end? So how come us MG owners have to pay the same amount to get the same thing as Scarlet-W owners? In my opinion it makes littles sense and a bit of a strange move against us MG owners in a very great favor to Scarlet-W owners.

I hear your position, but If you had ordered Scarlet-W let's say on December (like I did), which is 9 months ago, you would not have a camera yet. That is my position and I'm sure there are plenty of others on the same boat. I'm not going to make assumptions, but if you're a professional and your gear is an investment, you've had returns on your investment already and people waiting on the Scarlet-W have not, or had to rent, or had to use a different system, etc, etc.

On the "why", I think Jarred said it best:

We might phrase it as a "reward for waiting"... But in reality it's more like a "yeah we fucked up, sorry "

Again, not looking to argue or diminish your point, but it has been a long wait for Scarlet-W and we can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Andrei Goaga]

When doing the upgrade to MG we were told to do it otherwise Epic Dragons will have to pay a lot of money or even loose out on being able to upgrade in the future. Many, me as well, jumped on and paid $14 000 for that upgrade. We got the actual camera a few months later, last spring. Now, only around sex months later we hear that the upgrade price for MG owners is $9500 and for Scarlet-W owners $10000. No, we didn't get the MG as a part of an upgrade because no one knew about Helium, but that doesn't change the fact that the Scarlet-W compared to the Weapon MG has a huge difference in price and giving Scarlet-W owners the same upgrade price to get the same camera as MG owners is pretty unfair to all those who jumped on to MG and waited months to get their camera. How exactly is this fair to MG owners?

We just don't know that yet Christofer. Nobody confirmed prices or specs.

If you take Jarreds word then, MgW owners will pay the least. Considerably less he said. So maybe he has a deal at St.Regis and the pricing is way different than we expect. Or the specs ar different. Or everything is changed from what we know So I think we should just wait and things will turn out for the best!

Mg can go sideways to Epic-W ( cheaper ) or upwards to Weapon Helium ( more expensive ) . Mg owners pay considerably less than the others to goto Epic-W as they only need to pay the sensor cost to goto Epic-W, which is around how much you would pay to stay at the Bentley suite in the St. Regis hotel for a single night.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I hear your position, but If you had ordered Scarlet-W let's say on December (like I did), which is 9 months ago, you would not have a camera yet. That is my position and I'm sure there are plenty of others on the same boat. I'm not going to make assumptions, but if you're a professional and your gear is an investment, you've had returns on your investment already and people waiting on the Scarlet-W have not, or had to rent, or had to use a different system, etc, etc.

On the "why", I think Jarred said it best:



Again, not looking to argue or diminish your point, but it has been a long wait for Scarlet-W and we can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I ordered last november, got the camera in march and have been trying to scramble together the rest of the gear until just recently. My camera hasn't been able to go out much on jobs and I've had a few hickups with the camera, like timecode reseting due to a probably dead internal battery. So define waiting? It's not like us MG owners who jumped on the ship when Red recommended us that we should (November) have been able to do much or have a superior advantage over the waiting time Scarlet-W owners endured. I don't see how the massive price difference is justifiable really. Especially if you consider that if I sell my MG which only has around 40 hours of run time I would maybe get it sold for $27 000, then buying a new Epic-W would set me back $3000 instead of upgrading for $9500 getting probably the same Weapon house as I already have but with a Helium sensor.

Pricing makes no sense with the information we've been giving at this time.

We just don't know that yet Christofer. Nobody confirmed prices or specs.

If you take Jarreds word then, MgW owners will pay the least. Considerably less he said. So maybe he has a deal at St.Regis and the pricing is way different than we expect. Or the specs ar different. Or everything is changed from what we know So I think we should just wait and things will turn out for the best!

He said the price would be around $9500 for MG owners and around $10000 for Scarlet-W owners. If we are to go by "considerably less" and the cost would be justified by the difference between a Scarlet-W and a Weapon MG, then the price point for MG owners would land almost down to 0. But with my calculation of how much it would cost to just sell the MG and buy a new Epic-W, I would land on $2000 if I'm really lucky with the sell. So would anyone with an MG feel $9500 is a good upgrade deal?

 

[sam karr]

I ordered last november, got the camera in march and have been trying to scramble together the rest of the gear until just recently. My camera hasn't been able to go out much on jobs and I've had a few hickups with the camera, like timecode reseting due to a probably dead internal battery. So define waiting? It's not like us MG owners who jumped on the ship when Red recommended us that we should (November) have been able to do much or have a superior advantage over the waiting time Scarlet-W owners endured. I don't see how the massive price difference is justifiable really. Especially if you consider that if I sell my MG which only has around 40 hours of run time I would maybe get it sold for $27 000, then buying a new Epic-W would set me back $3000 instead of upgrading for $9500 getting probably the same Weapon house as I already have but with a Helium sensor.

Why are you relying on upgrades then? Just sell it.
Red cameras should be bought by rich people who don't care or shooters working a lot / earning a lot of money. They are not an investment, they are depreciating quite fast (good luck on the $27000 with all the new models just released).
I still don't understand why you're doing all these upgrades, every time it makes you unhappy and it seems like you never learn the lesson. Do you really need them?
There's not a lot of logic with Red, it was always like that and I guess it's what made the company being what it is.

 

[Andrei Goaga]

I ordered last november, got the camera in march and have been trying to scramble together the rest of the gear until just recently. My camera hasn't been able to go out much on jobs and I've had a few hickups with the camera, like timecode reseting due to a probably dead internal battery. So define waiting? It's not like us MG owners who jumped on the ship when Red recommended us that we should (November) have been able to do much or have a superior advantage over the waiting time Scarlet-W owners endured. I don't see how the massive price difference is justifiable really. Especially if you consider that if I sell my MG which only has around 40 hours of run time I would maybe get it sold for $27 000, then buying a new Epic-W would set me back $3000 instead of upgrading for $9500 getting probably the same Weapon house as I already have but with a Helium sensor.

Pricing makes no sense with the information we've been giving at this time.




He said the price would be around $9500 for MG owners and around $10000 for Scarlet-W owners. If we are to go by "considerably less" and the cost would be justified by the difference between a Scarlet-W and a Weapon MG, then the price point for MG owners would land almost down to 0. But with my calculation of how much it would cost to just sell the MG and buy a new Epic-W, I would land on $2000 if I'm really lucky with the sell. So would anyone with an MG feel $9500 is a good upgrade deal?

Pricing makes no sense because we don't know all the information. What is the price for what specs and for what upgrade. We just know some bits and pieces, we don't have enough to make the whole puzzle. I really think that Jarred will come up with a great solution and as always things said in the past can change, at any time, that's life, that's business. We are working on a high-end, high-profit, high-RISK industry, business is business.

As for the 9500 upgrade from MgW to Epic-W it really makes no sense for a MgW owner. The cameras bought new are the same cost So why pay 1/3rd of the cost to upgrade. No one will take this route, so I think something is wrong with what we know so far.

The 9500 upgrade from MgW will probably give you something else (maybe a MgHelium), not the Epic-W. Or the "sideways" upgrade to the Epic-W will be dirt cheap

As for selling the camera, I remember the MgW was "upgrades only" for some number of months until it became available to be purchased a la carte. Maybe this will be the case for Epic-W also (at least I think it should so that Epic-W doesn't become the next Scarlet-W in terms of fulfilling orders).

 

[Andrei Goaga]

Oh, and BTW, RED did not "recommend" doing it in November. It was the last time you could get a great deal on the WMg upgrade because they reduced the price with 5K and it was the last time they let us keep the 5K aks credit.

 

[Even Evensen]

How about! If you have shitloads of Helium sensors. Just put in these in the Scarlet W body (if that works out), offer an amount for that, and a price for an possible upgrade to 6 and 8K.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Oh, and BTW, RED did not "recommend" doing it in November. It was the last time you could get a great deal on the WMg upgrade because they reduced the price with 5K and it was the last time they let us keep the 5K aks credit.

Yes, we got recommendations as in if we wanted that deal we need to do it then. If we'd know that it was better to just go with the Scarlet-W because we would get to the same level of camera just six months after we initially got our MGs, that would have changed everything. Or if we'd know that Epic Dragons would be able to go Epic-W and the new sensor. We specifically got word that Epic was EOL if not upgrading to Weapon and now Epic owners will be able to upgrade to both Weapon and the new sensor anyway.

If this is how things progress, then I guess that even if Red states that upgrades now to Epic-W and Helium will be cheaper than doing it later, we could expect to be able to, six months from now, upgrade from MG to 8K VV or Weapon Helium for a fraction of what CF owners paid, that would be in the same logic as the Scarlet-W vs MG upgrade to Epic-W.

 

[Jaimy Soares]

Also remember Helium is a diffrent sensor. Not so a "better"one.
I really like the stops in the dark, but for some hoots I prefer the stops on the other side of the spectrum.
So maybe when we know more there are people willing to trade their Epic-w For a Weapon-MG.

 

[Andrei Goaga]

If this is how things progress, then I guess that even if Red states that upgrades now to Epic-W and Helium will be cheaper than doing it later, we could expect to be able to, six months from now, upgrade from MG to 8K VV or Weapon Helium for a fraction of what CF owners paid, that would be in the same logic as the Scarlet-W vs MG upgrade to Epic-W.

And maybe they will Now, that would be great, wouldn't it?

 

[Sergio Perez]

Yes, we got recommendations as in if we wanted that deal we need to do it then. If we'd know that it was better to just go with the Scarlet-W because we would get to the same level of camera just six months after we initially got our MGs, that would have changed everything. Or if we'd know that Epic Dragons would be able to go Epic-W and the new sensor. We specifically got word that Epic was EOL if not upgrading to Weapon and now Epic owners will be able to upgrade to both Weapon and the new sensor anyway.

If this is how things progress, then I guess that even if Red states that upgrades now to Epic-W and Helium will be cheaper than doing it later, we could expect to be able to, six months from now, upgrade from MG to 8K VV or Weapon Helium for a fraction of what CF owners paid, that would be in the same logic as the Scarlet-W vs MG upgrade to Epic-W.

No we didn't. I am an Epic Dragon owner and I remember clearly there was no time stamp for us to upgrade to Weapon . Yes there was a limited time on the credit for accessories- not sure about this too- but never did I remember a time limit for us to upgrade to Weapon.

Those that took the upgrade got the 5K accessory credit bonus. These DSMC2 accessories work on the Helium sensor too.

The bad notion here is that those that stayed on Epic Dragon and didn't upgrade should get a "worse deal". Epic Dragon owners are well and still in the Weapon Upgrade time window. They didn't take the benefit of jumping to the DSMC2 system earlier: they didn't get better noise floor, a much better body design, optimal Dragon sensor output.

 

[Andrei Goaga]

Originally Posted by Andrei Goaga

I think Scarlet-W switchers should have priority on this. These guys are the reason this update thread exists more or less. They've seen Raven switchers taking their place in the que so I think it's a nice thing to do for them

You get a 10K discount on a 30K camera. Then also expect to jump in front of the line?

) I don't expect anything ... I was just saying, I have no interest in this, I am a MgW owner.

 

[Andrei Goaga]

No worries, my friend. Just saying you have only part of the picture with those numbers. Trust me, just met with Jarred to fine tune some things and I think there are going to be a lot of happy folks, both existing RED owners and new additions to the family.

Now, it is my mission to keep Jarred's lips sealed with Loctite until then : )

Or maybe Loctite his fingers to a broken keyboard, to be exact.

Also, I now see that Brent confirmed what I was saying

 

[Christoffer Glans]

No we didn't. I am an Epic Dragon owner and I remember clearly there was no time stamp for us to upgrade to Weapon . Yes there was a limited time on the credit for accessories- not sure about this too- but never did I remember a time limit for us to upgrade to Weapon.

Those that took the upgrade got the 5K accessory credit bonus. These DSMC2 accessories work on the Helium sensor too.

The bad notion here is that those that stayed on Epic Dragon and didn't upgrade should get a "worse deal". Epic Dragon owners are well and still in the Weapon Upgrade time window. They didn't take the benefit of jumping to the DSMC2 system earlier: they didn't get better noise floor, a much better body design, optimal Dragon sensor output.

The recommendation came from the notion that even if the Epic Dragon will be able to upgrade to Weapon MG, the price would significally increase further on. We got our MGs in around March, meaning that for some reason, those with Epic feels like they should get a better deal than they might get because MG owners had six months (some of less due to lacking accessories) of using the MG and Epic owners had such a worthless camera until this upgrade to Epic-W?

All that I'm proposing is that the upgrade pricing should fit what everyone's been paying for. Having the same upgrade price for two cameras that cost massively different is not logic at all. The prices should reflect what people own and have paid for, not disrupting the entire lineup of cameras. MG owners paid almost double or more for their MG compared to what Scarlet-W orders were, not all accessories were ready when MGs were sent out and not all those cameras were ready for rentals or serious jobs while it took around three-four months before Helium was announced and a new upgrade were proposed. If MG owners have a "sideways" cost of $9500, then what is the Scarlet-W price called?

 

[Abiodun Shote]

No we didn't. I am an Epic Dragon owner and I remember clearly there was no time stamp for us to upgrade to Weapon . Yes there was a limited time on the credit for accessories- not sure about this too- but never did I remember a time limit for us to upgrade to Weapon.

Those that took the upgrade got the 5K accessory credit bonus. These DSMC2 accessories work on the Helium sensor too.

The bad notion here is that those that stayed on Epic Dragon and didn't upgrade should get a "worse deal". Epic Dragon owners are well and still in the Weapon Upgrade time window. They didn't take the benefit of jumping to the DSMC2 system earlier: they didn't get better noise floor, a much better body design, optimal Dragon sensor output.

RED has a way of trying to compensate for everybody albiet at expense of some sot of queue management but they aalways try. Remember, the deal they gave Scarlet-Dragon owners when S-W suddenly pop out of nowehere while S-D was just getting a foothold in the mass market (or after S-D has gotten a foothold, depends on how you look at it)? Not particularly enticing if one is on a tight budget but all the same a very strong bargain. You can now imagine WPN Mg that is still getting out in trickles! Like Brent said, till we see the numbers. And lets not forget we have 2 set of numbers. Oct. 11th numbers, and the numbers afterwards. I am sure one set of numbers is sure to to swing either ways

 

[Even Evensen]

Dont have it, still waiting! Used 10 K USD on renting RED... Belive in my frustation...

 

[Even Evensen]

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) I don't expect anything ... I was just saying, I have no interest in this, I am a MgW owner.

MGW is a nice car!