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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Update Thread

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Brent you're the best! Thank you for being a realist and keeping RED above water.
Bcus we won't have any model cameras without that.

OK, a lot of churn on here, which is understandable. A few things as we near October, many I have said many times - and still stand true:

A. We know, not matter what we do, we will never please everyone all the time. We could come out with a pocket camera that shoots 12K @120FPS for $500...and people would complain it erodes the value of their current camera. We could come out with the same camera at $250,000 - and people would complain their RAVEN does not have 12K.

B. No one in their right minds, at least at this level, offers upgrade programs. Why? First, see bullet A. Second, they are a b*tch to explain, to administer, etc. Third, companies long ago figured it was better for their bottom line to come out with a new model that makes yesterday's model obsolete.

C. We are going to (that is, attempt to) simplify our lineup AND our upgrade paths. At NAB 2015, we tried to account for every single scenario and contingency - which led to a super-complex clusterf**k of a program that was impossible for customers to wrap their heads around it. Heck, even the BOMB SQUAD had to have cheat sheets.

D. We do have to keep the lights on. We will always strive to do what is best for as many new and existing customers as possible. Within reason. "Let me upgrade from (x) to (y) for (RED's cost - $10,000)" just does not work as a long term business model. On occasions more than I can care to count, RED has taken hits because - in that case - we felt it was the right thing to do at that time. We just cannot do it all the time. I think we are pretty darn aggressive when it comes to being mindful of your checkbooks. See bullet E....

E. Price to performance ratio. I mean, like Jarred said at one point, take our $10K SCARLET-W and put it - spec for spec - against every camera we just saw at IBC. Where does it stack up? For $10K? Come on...

F. No one has ever been forced to upgrade. There are a shit ton of people out there shooting the crap out of RED ONE M-Xs right now. I would even say stack that camera against a lot of what we saw at IBC. Upgrades are "upgrade offers", not "upgrade mandates." If it works for you, do it. If not, don't.

F. People are making calculations of what they THINK the offers are, or will be. Some have been close to the pin. Some in a different hemisphere. Some close, but missing critical context or additional information that dramatically changes the vibe of the offers. Speculation is half the fun of REDUSER, just don't sharpen those pitchforks and light those torches quite yet...

Ok, let's wrap this rant. A lot of people will be happy with what is coming down the pike. Some won't be. That is just the way it is in life.
 
I kid you not, there is a growing push in boardrooms and in business schools to teach companies not to listen to their customers at all. Google It, I'm not making this shit up.

And yes, it is easy to see why. If we stood on the top of a mountain giving away free bags of gold there would still be people that complained that they needed to climb the mountain to get it.

As a customer I'll say it's better not to listen to us that much :)) (unless we join the third party manufacturer program)

Do your thing as you've always did and things will turn up spectacular as they have been for the past 10 years.

If you asked customers anything in 2006 probably they would have told you that all they need is just a 3 perf S35 camera to save a bit on their film stock cost, or worse, HD cameras with compressed formats for 200K :))
 
As a customer I'll say it's better not to listen to us that much :)) (unless we join the third party manufacturer program)

Do your thing as you've always did and things will turn up spectacular as they have been for the past 10 years.

If you asked customers anything in 2006 probably they would have told you that all they need is just a 3 perf S35 camera to save a bit on their film stock cost, or worse, HD cameras with compressed formats for 200K :))
Heh, things were a little further progressed back during those old days. We even had digital cameras back then and even $20k was a hurdle. '-)

DVX user was the forerunner of REDuser.
 
Heh, things were a little further progressed back during those old days. We even had digital cameras back then and even $20k was a hurdle. '-)

DVX user was the forerunner of REDuser.

And people were sand blasting small pieces of glass to make 35mm lens adaptors :D
 
Logistical question for Oct 11th... looks like I might have a shoot getting booked that day and it could be rather difficult for me to check the forum for updates. How timely is our action for this upgrade? I just don't want to get left in the dust if it takes me a a while to see the news!
 
Logistical question for Oct 11th... looks like I might have a shoot getting booked that day and it could be rather difficult for me to check the forum for updates. How timely is our action for this upgrade? I just don't want to get left in the dust if it takes me a a while to see the news!

Usually getting in on day one seems to be enough for getting it at a decent time.
 
And people were sand blasting small pieces of glass to make 35mm lens adaptors :D

But you were right in your post that there were many still holding on to film as the superior medium.
 
Guys my SW is superb but in the same time I feel that I should get this offer of 10k....but in the same time for what I do the SW is more than enough....but (lol) I know that upgrading my investment will be woth it! Very..VERY confusing! I love my SW though!
 
Man, I never even thought about RED making a pocket camera. But now that Brent brought it up. Hmmm!
 
Guys my SW is superb but in the same time I feel that I should get this offer of 10k....but in the same time for what I do the SW is more than enough....but (lol) I know that upgrading my investment will be woth it! Very..VERY confusing! I love my SW though!

ha ha, yeah, same for me. I've been really digging the Scarlet-W for the couple weeks I've had it (1 of which, it was in on RMA). It's so flexible and the picture is beautiful. 5K s35 R3D is fabulous. Even shot a looong interview yesterday to ProRes (for quick TV edit, per client request). Couldn't have done that before.
 
Yeah man! And they say the Raven is a drone/gimbal camera..

We went from shooting with a Cion to shooting with the Scarlet-X that Red is letting me use... several people commented about its cuteness because it's so much smaller than the Cion ;)
 
For all you MG owners that feel like you got trickfucked... don't worry.

Thanks for the info Jarred!

I had always loved Red.
I've had almost a dozen Red Ones over the years, a few Scarlets, a few Epics... then upgraded to the Epic Dragon - bliss!
Then came the Weapon upgrade, and I thought I was out of the upgrade path. Too much for me at the time after having just upgraded to Dragon. Man was I feeling like crap.
But then came the discount for owners before NAB, then the $5k accessory credit... all of a sudden, I was back in big time! Now I can't wait for the 8k Helium upgrade.

If it's one thing I learned from that, it's that Red will not trickfuck you. No other company in the world is like Red.

I'm a lifer from here on out. (and when I say that, it means since 2007 on out)
 
Usually getting in on day one seems to be enough for getting it at a decent time.
I can tell you're not one of us Dec 10th guys ;)

I kid, I kid. I was mainly asking because I remembered Jarred saying to be sure to get in on the offer right away, which of course reminded me of the Stormtrooper urgency, I'm sure it won't be anywhere near that hectic. That said, I'm super excited to see details and have a feeling that an upgrade could be in my future...
 
I kid you not, there is a growing push in boardrooms and in business schools to teach companies not to listen to their customers at all. Google It, I'm not making this shit up.

It's one of those management trends that go up and down like skirt lenghts for at least 100 years between "The customer is always right" and "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry Ford. Right now the idol in business school is Steve Jobs, who was notorious for not listening to the customers. And it's a bit of heaven and hell, when it works it's like wow you understand me better than I understand myself but when it doesn't you're just an arrogant dick. But all the future CEOs in business school dream of being the great visionary.

Personally I think it's important to understand your customers, if you don't listen you'll never really get to know them. But I've talked to many end users and very often they come up with extremely poor solutions, because they don't understand the technical domain. People here know a lot about using a camera, that's worth listening to. There are also many armchair quarterback camera manufacturers, those I'd listen a whole lot less to. I guess it's like most things in life, if you're taking advice you should probably make sure that they're worth taking advice from first.
 
If we stood on the top of a mountain giving away free bags of gold there would still be people that complained that they needed to climb the mountain to get it.
Love it.... and makes me wonder why would you go up a mountain with a lot of bags of gold in the first place...? :smile5:
Jokes apart, I hope to be in the side of the extremely happy customers in a month. If not, I'll be on the side of the very happy customers. You guys are creating a killer product, and Jarred/Brent are taking care of customers in an unprecedented way. Whatever happens, gold or not, I respect both your work and way of working a ton.
 
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