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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Three Axis Gimbal Thread

A lot of questions regarding the brushless gimbal wars will be answered at NAB. Will Freefly roll out major hardware/firmware upgrades and reaffirm dominance or will the competition close the quality gap at a lower price point? Interesting times.
 
Ned Wilson said:
Thanks Chris. That cleared up a lot. Anyone else with relevant experience, please chime in. Right now, the Gimbal world seems like the Wild West and Movi is John Wayne. What bothers me the most about the other manufactures is the opaqueness. No spec sheets, few demos that shows the set up/balance process, weight of rig, etc. Yet the "Buy Now" button is the easiest thing to find.

Chris, last question, how does the Movi handle a fully rigged Epic (MB, RFF, PL Prime, Filters, Monitor, Wireless Tran, and Battery)? Minimally this is what I'd hope to run.
Click to expand...

The MoVI is rated to support 12lbs on the actual gimbal. You can put as much weight as you can handle along the top cross bar, however, every ounce really counts when you're basically just using your arms to support the system. It gets heavy fast. Obviously, the longer you operate a MoVI type device, the longer you'll be able to go without needing a break. On my first job, I found myself needing a break every few minutes.

For your rigging, you would want to keep as much weight off the actual gimbal as possible. You probably wouldn't want to have a matte box nor a V-Mount/bigger battery as it would weigh down your system way too quickly. A wireless follow focus isn't a problem. PL primes get heavy quickly, so if you're going to rock a prime, I wouldn't recommend it being a RPP haha.
 
Wendell Adkins said:
A lot of questions regarding the brushless gimbal wars will be answered at NAB. Will Freefly roll out major hardware/firmware upgrades and reaffirm dominance or will the competition close the quality gap at a lower price point? Interesting times.
Click to expand...

Freefly make everything on their gimbal, and have the best software. The also have the longest RandD period, and probably the biggest capital. Considering their timely release (okay, a month late) and the reliability and effectiveness of their product on first release (no bugs) I bet the current software and hardware are the the tip of the iceberg.
 
Gremsy make everything on there gimbal, even the batteries which can run the gimbal between 3 - 5 hours.
The H14 can carry 14lbs (6.4kg) and its half the price of the MoVi.
The H14 is Gremsy's 2nd gimbal, they are not new to this market and what is needed on production.

I'll be at NAB with my H14, Epic, PL Mount lens (Illuminas) and RT Motion follow focus.
 
Chris McKechnie said:
Ok, so here's some footage I threw together in a simple edit for you guys using the MoVI M10. The MoVI really does rock. Enjoy.
Click to expand...

Chris McKechnie said:
I have tried the Levefly and a cheaper Chinese version. Both don't even come close to how stable the MoVI is, and the testing was done with a properly balanced rig. I have not tested the Gremsy or the B4.
Click to expand...

Chris..I could be making a simplification here just to play devils advocate or maybe I've forgotton what real handheld
looks like since stuff today is post-stabilized...but offhand it looks like half those shots could've
been done handheld and half with a 3 ft. slider...Maybe these shots are just too short to show the Movi's capabilities.

Just trying to understand what the Movi offers over all the gimbals out there. It has become a rental standard name from day one..
but seems like it's more cause they were the first horse out of the gate.

But how would the footage have looked different with the cheap Chinese gimbal..?..would the horizon line just be off and crooked..?
What is the Movi doing here that other gimbals couldn't do.
 
Steve Das said:
Chris..I could be making a simplification here just to play devils advocate or maybe I've forgotton what real handheld
looks like since stuff today is post-stabilized...but offhand it looks like half those shots could've
been done handheld and half with a 3 ft. slider...Maybe these shots are just too short to show the Movi's capabilities.

Just trying to understand what the Movi offers over all the gimbals out there. It has become a rental standard name from day one..
but seems like it's more cause they were the first horse out of the gate.

But how would the footage have looked different with the cheap Chinese gimbal..?..would the horizon line just be off and crooked..?
What is the Movi doing here that other gimbals couldn't do.
Click to expand...

The other Chinese knock-offs would have had ok footage that would have definitely needed some post stabilization work. Nothing that I have tried to date is as stable as the MoVI.

In terms of what the MoVI can do as opposed to handheld, slider, etc is the versatility aspect. You can get diverse, stabilized shots much more quickly than setting up other support gear. Comparing it to handheld, I don't think it's even close. If I would have handheld all that footage, it would have been shaky at best. Running alongside fast moving objects, going from low to high, holding in a low tilted angle upwards, all tasks that the MoVI tackles with ease.
 
Chris Marino said:
Why settle for less when there are non freely gimbals that cost less (not paying for branding) and proven on big shows? They do because I have used the "other" brands on a big show and it performed flawlessly on a ten camera, $100M feature. http://innovacam.com/case-studies/
Click to expand...

Good to hear that it worked well for you on such a significant production.

I feel it necessary to point out that this is one data point (Freefly have been in business for many years as a service company) and that the two items are different in design and some functionality. Software engineering is as important if not more important to the quality of the move and the kind of move one may wish to achieve. I don't know the quality of this software package, so I make no comment in that regard.

Freefly manufacture their entire product with high tolerances, such that a semicircular rail is not required to bolster the roll motor, for example.

So I can safely say the price differential is not solely related to a differential in marketing investment between companies!
 
Brett Harrison said:
...Freefly manufacture their entire product with high tolerances, such that a semicircular rail is not required to bolster the roll motor, for example.

So I can safely say the price differential is not solely related to a differential in marketing investment between companies!
Click to expand...

Well the Movi M10 can hold up to only 12 lbs.....but this Innovacam Fisso R1 can hold up to 18 lbs. so maybe the semicircular rail is a good idea that works.
So not only is there a weight differential...but as for price differential the M10 is $14,995 and R1 is $9,950

http://innovacam.com/fisso-r1/
 
Wow. Just looked at the Fisso. 18lb load solves a lot of issues. I think the roll bar makes complete sense for heavier loads, spreading out the stress. Expendables 3 is a helluva beta test. I'm on the fence now. 14lb Gremsy for 5200.00 or 18lb Fisso for 10G ?
 
I still questions this design, the tube framed design allows for axis to slip out of alignment. This is why the H14 has a two tube design to maintain 90 degree. which maintains a constant alignment as the axis are perpendicular.

This rig is also based on the Alexmos controller and looks to have off the shelf motors.
Where the H14 is 100% custom made for production environments, custom motors, customs controller.

It is impressive that Expendables 3 used it in production but I see that more a reflection on the crew being the gimbal then the gimbal itself.

Have you seen the H14 in "inverted mode", its pretty amazing what shooting possibilities this opens up.
 
Weight. Solutions?

Weight. Solutions?

Rory, thanks for pointing that out. That said, although I plan to fly cameras pretty stripped down, there are things I just can't omit.
Perhaps you as well as other 3 Axis gimbal owners can chime in on how they get their rigs under weight.

So here's what I'd plan to run on the Baseplate:
Red Epic 5lbs
Cooke S4 5lbs
LMB 5 1.1lbs
(2) Filters .9 ounces
V mount plate .5 lb
68WH V Mount IDX 1.15lbs
(2) RT Motion Lens motors .93 lbs
(1) RT Receiver .26lbs
Cables: .5

Total Weight: 14.44lbs.

So this set up is obviously over the M14 and Movi's weight. What do most of you 3 Axis owners do? Fly the battery off the handle? If so, does this complicate balance?
I know some tape the filters on, but I find that somewhat bootleg, prone to glare, etc. I also see my self in situations where I'd be asked to do moves from Interior to Exterior so F/I control is a must. I listed S4's because they're pretty standard on many of the shoots I operate. 12mm S4 or Master Prime would take it another 1.5 lbs over.
 
Hi Ned

From my flying experience I would…
Loose the V mount battery and run the camera and accessories off a LiPo.
I'd also use a Variable ND filter that I would tape to the lens. You can get a 86mm VND.

You'd probably shave off one or two pounds by doing this.

The gimbal should be able to handle the weight and its more the copter handling it and having more flight time to get the shot and land safely.

I'd like to test the Red motion mount with the built-in ND's and see if you can rack a ND change to simulate a Iris rack.

Yes taping on filters is a bit bootleg but its really all about saving weight so you can fly for longer. I heard someone was working on a 4x5.65 filter clip on device which would be pretty sweet.

If your shooting with a 12mm S4, how much focus pulling will you really be doing so you could loose a lens motor.

We really need to come up with a different description for "flying" a gimbal as it's confusing with you're flying a gimbal on a multirotor :-)
 
roryhinds said:
Hi Ned

From my flying experience I would…
Loose the V mount battery and run the camera and accessories off a LiPo.
I'd also use a Variable ND filter that I would tape to the lens. You can get a 86mm VND.

You'd probably shave off one or two pounds by doing this.

The gimbal should be able to handle the weight and its more the copter handling it and having more flight time to get the shot and land safely.

I'd like to test the Red motion mount with the built-in ND's and see if you can rack a ND change to simulate a Iris rack.

Yes taping on filters is a bit bootleg but its really all about saving weight so you can fly for longer. I heard someone was working on a 4x5.65 filter clip on device which would be pretty sweet.

If your shooting with a 12mm S4, how much focus pulling will you really be doing so you could loose a lens motor.

We really need to come up with a different description for "flying" a gimbal as it's confusing with you're flying a gimbal on a multirotor :-)
Click to expand...

Sorry Rory, I must have mislead you. I wouldn't be "flying" it, just hand held. I'd still need to go the matte box route as S4's have a 110mm front and I'd also need to IR's as well. With the LiPo batt. How do you mount it? Velcro? What connector could I use to run F/I control and camera?
 
Ned Wilson said:
So here's what I'd plan to run on the Baseplate:
Red Epic 5lbs
Cooke S4 5lbs
LMB 5 1.1lbs
(2) Filters .9 ounces
V mount plate .5 lb
68WH V Mount IDX 1.15lbs
(2) RT Motion Lens motors .93 lbs
(1) RT Receiver .26lbs
Cables: .5

Total Weight: 14.44lbs.

So this set up is obviously over the M14 and Movi's weight. What do most of you 3 Axis owners do? Fly the battery off the handle? If so, does this complicate balance?
I know some tape the filters on, but I find that somewhat bootleg, prone to glare, etc. I also see my self in situations where I'd be asked to do moves from Interior to Exterior so F/I control is a must. I listed S4's because they're pretty standard on many of the shoots I operate. 12mm S4 or Master Prime would take it another 1.5 lbs over.
Click to expand...

Actually know of a feature shooting now with Movi and S4's and yes I believe power is coming off AB/V mounts off the top bar by the handle for power for
Redrock remote focus and wireless video.
Since only the weight on the gimbal's camera stage plate affects the weight limit and gimbal performance. So if you take out the battery and battery plate and the
matte box and filters then you can just get under the Movi 12 lbs. limit.
If you really need the filters...then think only solution is just to go for a lighter weight lens choice.
 
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