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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The RED Menace: Sony Getting Paranoid

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planet e

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http://www.broadcastbuyer.tv/publis...eal_Systems_Right_Now_At_NAB_2007_10706.shtml

is it just my interpretation, or is sony's entire NAB theme built around RED paranoia? who else would they be targeting their "Real Systems, Right Now" campaign towards? what spectre are they responding to, with this weird title?

let's see, it's not panasonic, jvc, or canon, which already have HD-capable "real systems, right now" in the marketplace....

could it be the ghost of cameras yet to come??

mwahahahahaha!
 
Real systems, right now - for a butt load of cash.
Even if money were no object I would still
get a RED. Look at the used market in
the first generation HDCAM. Nobody wants
them. I know of several shooters dumping
older HDCAM's and going to HVX for now.
They are all waiting and know what it is like
holding notes on gear that cost more
than your house.
 
"Real systems, right now"

Heh... As if Sony doesn't have their own vaporware? :umm:

Hopefully RED will be shipping at NAB or so close it doesn't matter and then Sony can eat their own poo. :matrix:
 
Hey somones gotta pay for balls bouncing down the street and paint exploding over buildings and..
 
It will be interesting what qualifies as real systems right now. I think they are making a big push into workflow software directly competeing with Avid and others.
 
Real Systems, Right now... Just like their Playstation 3... Oh wait, I live in Europe... we have to wait an extra year or something, maybe I'll import one... Oh wait Sony's sueing everyone who does... sod it I'll use an xbox... it's better anyway
 
You can't even buy a PS3 in the USA or Japan anyway... Unless you happen to be at the right store, on the right day, after the proper delivery truck and know the kid who works there. And catch him before he buys it himself to sell on ebay or to sell to a friend.

And you're right the xbox 360 is better anyway. PS3 sucks... But at least it serves dual purposes right out of the box -- the world's crappiest BluRay player and the world's most overpriced, overrated game console. There ya go.

...Actually one of my local Wal-Marts had a couple PS3 systems in the case last week. So I guess they're starting to gain on the market. But at their current price, many kids who want them still can't have them.
 
I too have heard from the Sony folks and they basically say nothing has been proven yet with Red and there's no way to edit, nobody knows what all the add-ons will cost and so on...and if you need to shoot high end HD now they are the only real solution given the fact they have 20,000+ F900's worldwide, and 9,000 XDCam users...I sometimes feeling like vomiting as a gag reflex.
 
As for Torrie's comment - hopefully we'll have some new answers at NAB to further clarify some of those questions.

20,000 F900s? Is that right? Where did you get that number? I'm not saying it is wrong, but it is higher than the estimates I've heard - I'd just like to know where it came from.

-mike
 
Can't comment on F900's but others there are about 100 Vipers, 70 Genesis, and maybe a couple of dozen Dalsa Origin and Arri D20s around the world. 20,000 F900's does seem high.
 
planet e said:
is it just my interpretation, or is sony's entire NAB theme built around RED paranoia? who else would they be targeting their "Real Systems, Right Now" campaign towards? what spectre are they responding to, with this weird title?
Click to expand...
The great irony in this is of course that RED will be real at NAB (and cost a heck of a lot less than Sony's high-end products to boot). Their half-hearted "announcement" of a 4K camera indicated that such a device was a good 2-3 years away, and even then you know it's not going to sell for $17K. Even if the RED ONE retail price does go up for non-reservation holders, I can't imagine it jumping anywhere near the level of an F900 (and we won't even bring up the fact that it's a superior camera in every way possible). No, I think that there are quite a few camera companies that are really going to have to take a long, hard look at their priorities and start making some changes if they want to be taken seriously in the future.
 
Haven't worked in 4K and I suspect not many (if any) will unless there's a major theatrical deal requiring either a 35 print or 4K projection.

My guess on the 21,000 F900 units probably includes VTR's as they always seem to include them when they describe how much product is on the market.
 
Transferring a 4k film to 35mm is very expensive.

Most of the film transfer houses in Asia does 2k and advices their clients against going for 4k for film transfer.
 
Mike said:
Transferring a 4k film to 35mm is very expensive.

Most of the film transfer houses in Asia does 2k and advices their clients against going for 4k for film transfer.
Click to expand...

When going out to film, is it possible to easily mix and match 2k and 4k outputs? (on a shot by shot basis)

R.
 
Under what OS is this all running? If you run this on a graphical OS in say an OpenGL viewport (instead of Vesa VBE, sounds like your running under DOS or something) you can get to higher resolutions (if you have a graphics card + display device that support that), have color calibration & support reading from much faster (portable) RAID arrays.

From what I've seen most laser printing is done from TIFF/DPX/Cineon image sequences. With a decent RAID the wait time is recording the frame, not fetching it off the RAID.

For example: http://www.arri.com/prod/digital/arrilaser/index.php

If you take their maximum time of 3.8 seconds and multiply that by your 126,720 you get 481,536 seconds or 8025.6 minutes or 133.76 hours or 5.573 days.

www.DANCAD3D.com said:
Anyone have an idea how long it takes to process and render all frames through all the steps (ingestion, color timming, editing, filters, rendering the edited frames for output) used in making a 88 minute film using uncompressed 2k frames on one 3GHz computer using some program you have experence with?
Click to expand...

I don't really understand this question. Rendering something like this with a fast enough disk setup should be fairly quick. It all depends on what kind of color corrections, filters & effects you have added. Simply converting a 2K (compressed) clip to an uncompressed one your single core (?) 3 GHz machine with a proper RAID setup attached should takes you hours to convert an 88 minute feature, not days or something. Unless you added heavy visual effects or filters etc.
 
Dan, that's an over-simplistic way to look at how a Bayer CFA works though. The interpolation algorithms these days are quite sophisticated, and remember that each of the pixels picks up all colours, not just it's colour, although it's biassed towards that colour. Really, you're looking at the equivalent of > 70% of the linear resolution, which is more like 3k+ than the 2k you mention.

Also, anti-alias filters are not just necessary for Bayer CFA cameras, but all cameras unless you have really crappy lenses. Aliassing is a digusting artifact (that shows up as false colours on Bayer chips, but as nasty luma aliasses on other systems) that is especially bad on moving images. You can just about get away with it on stills cameras as you can always go into photoshop and paint out the worst moire, but really, all cameras should be designed to avoid aliassing. Of course, not all cameras do, and if you look at the image from them, you'll see the artifacts. We don't want artifacts, but instead, lovely images.

Graeme
 
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