The Oct 29th cut-off

[Jeff Coatney]

JJ posted a thread titled "LAST Time " on Sept 18, 2009
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=35176

it stated
"This will be the last time I post this. Those that don't own a RED ONE will wish they did."

so i assume those complaining are the "Those" that JJ was referring to who will wish they did .....

This was nearly 6 weeks ago and its pretty clear what the message was. Jim was being as direct as he dared. He couldn't just ring the dinner bell and yell "come and get it!". Remember that every trade in costs him money.

 

[Adam Clark]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=484909&postcount=168

 

[Joseph Ward]

You beat me to that quote Adam! lol


After the Epics X, Epic S35, and Scarlet S35 come out, Red should stop selling new RedOnes and just sell the RedOnes Sensor Upgrades and DSMC.

 

[Peter Matthes]

Peter,

I think that if you look at things from the perspective of "how does one get the most for the least" then you certainly might have a point. But If you stop to understand that in the last year you've had the sheer benefit of others buying and you renting from them. It really isnt easy to own and operate basically an amazing camera asit is, but at the same time it has and remains a beta and i for one always had to keep the phone close when one was out on rental as im sure all the owner/renters did. Yet Jim kept the
door open till the day before the announcement and gave warning that either
you didnt hear or heed.I believe the thread to be a bit insulting because where were you when those of us in countries that shipping is impossible had to fly to LA on our own dime to get things right with our packages?

IMO you havnt kept the situation in perspective.
still, all the best

How some of you take offense at this frustration is beyond me. If you are a current RED ONE owner, and you use the camera, I wish you all the best and in your case specifically Sergio, I admire your tenacity.

However, if you don't think that many of the last thousand bodies were being bought by placeholders, you are wrong. I know at least three wealthy RED ONE owners who bought a ONE just to be ahead in the line for an Epic. Those bodies have, in every one if those cases, not come out of their proverbial box.

In order to own and professionally rent out a state if the art camera, you must buy it close to its release date. As I am sure you know, even the best cameras become less rentable as time goes on.

Frankly, I could care less about the bonus modules. If that was merely the reward, it might seem fair. However new buyers now find themselves in a seemingly endless line to wait in. With this system of "reward" I would be surprised if non RED ONE owners will see a S35 in 2010.

"I did not hear or heed"?

How many prospective buyers do you think even know about this cut-off announcement yet?

Making cryptic announcements on a message board that very few people (except current camera owners) read is exclusionary.

I beleive that even those of us that follow this board found these messages to be veiled and often misleading.

With Arri's launch of the Alexia next year, this type of boy's club mentality may be difficult for many to swallow.

I wish you all the best Sergio and I am glad that someone with your drive will enjoy one of these new cameras.

 

[Adam Clark]

btw, nice avatar joseph.

 

[Joseph Ward]

Thanks Adam, were all kind of Goonies here. :yesnod:

The updates with the trade in values, should tell us more soon.

 

[Imran Farouk]

Well why is there all this hoo ha over the RED One? As in...why are people up in arms about the cut off date?

I see where some are coming from but still...it's not like you CAN'T buy the system...all your going to end up with is just...no extra modules...its all the same had you bought a new RED One basically...same procedure...
You buy what you need though this time, some people don't need audio...some people don't need the extra large batteries...

It's all good as far as I can see....
I bought my RED..yeah to get in line for the Epic-X but also cause I wanted to use it, learn it...I wanted it to be the tool that I was going to use for a long time that was at least on a professional level...also all the support RED gives is just amazing so given my past issues with cameras I wanted to be able to have that support...

That support won't change when people own the Epic-X and people will be able to get their Epic S35 probably around June 2010. Just guessing tbh but the logic is that...Tattoo goes out this year (assuming no mess ups) thats production being thought through already. Stage two happens early 2010 (if all goes right?) so production has begun...and so forth...basically...2010...who ever wants an S35 gets an S35 (assuming no money issue)...

I've learnt that...well in the industry it appears money talks...its crazy...talent is needed obviously but talent and no money...its a bit hard to show your talent (obviously if you have a camera though, less hard) if you have no talent but all the money...well...money can't buy you fans so...

If you have a RED One...great...if you don't and your whinning about a few extra modules...why are you whinning?
If your thinking 'who would buy RED One now?!' well...I'm sure RED has something up their sleeves to keep RED One alive and kicking post mysterium X...otherwise option 2 seems a bit of a short lived 4,500...

 

[Peter Moretti]

...

However, there are many trustifarian rich kids who will now benefit from stages 1-3, simply because they had the money to hold a place in line.

My understanding was that this company positions itself to be non-elitest. Yes, this stage system rewards the deserving and the loyal, but it also benefits those who can just throw their money around.

I would like to hear other opinions on this matter.

What are you talking about? You've spent 20 YEARS in the film industry and you're complaining about trustifarians and elitists?

Huge swatches of the film industy are inhabited by rich kids, beneficiaries of nepotism and people who simultaneously talk to you and look over your shoulder while searching for someone else more important, powerful or famous at the party.

Red lowered the cost of making a film, it didn't make it cheap, easy or fair. If you expect Red to change flaws in the way art has been created since before the Medici family, you're looking for a lot more than a camera from them.

 

[Peter Matthes]

If you expect Red to change flaws in the way art has been created since before the Medici family, you're looking for a lot more than a camera from them.

I don't expect that, Peter.

However, I believe that RED can, and should, deliver important puchasing information in a more suitable place than cryptically buried in a message board that is largely read by current camera owners.

Since (unlike many) I DO take the time to read this board, I had a bad feeling that something like this would happen.

As a result, I asked a friend who owns two R1 bodies. He told me that there is no way of ever knowing with RED. "It is all speculation"

I don't have money to speculate in the stock market, and I don't have money to speculate on camera purchases.

That's it in a nutshell.

 

[Imran Farouk]

So...whats the issue?

Upset on no-freebies or upset on "first come first serve"?

Just that I don't see the problem as everyone will get their hands in eventually...

 

[Peter Matthes]

So...whats the issue?

Upset on no-freebies or upset on "first come first serve"?

Just that I don't see the problem as everyone will get their hands in eventually...

Mainly I believe that RED can, and should, deliver important puchasing information in a more suitable place than cryptically buried in a message board that is largely read by current camera owners.

Imran, I do not believe that we will see stage four Epic cameras delivered until very late next year, if at all in 2010.

 

[David Battistella]

However, there are many trustifarian rich kids who will now benefit from stages 1-3, simply because they had the money to hold a place in line.

Peter,

When you put lines like this in your posts you really limit your credibility. It's just judgemental, bad form, argumentative and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Im not a billionaire, but the investment in RED was a choice, a creative decision to record everything I shoot in an extraordinary and high resolution.

Ripping on people for making an investment and calling them rich trust fund kids is not a way to start a discussion on these matters.

You know, I have not met Jim, Jarred, or many other people on the RED team, but by reading these boards and being a customer, and my limited interaction, I have learned a fair bit and I really think these guys are about a couple of things:

1. Trying to change things in the camera and post side of the film business.
2. Inventing cool shit.
3. Design.
4. Style.
5. Marketing.
6. Fun.
7. Fast cars
8. Good looking women.

They are not my buddies, but if they were I would bet they are solid guys, that i could have a beer with and smoke a cigar and have a few laughs. I think they trying to have some fun at what they are doing and trying to make a good living at it.

Just like the rest of us.

David

 

[jimhare]

I'm sure all of the pricing information will be on their website for new buyers when the cameras become commercially available.

In the meantime, isn't this information meant for existing owners, hence in the perfect place? Why would they broadcast it to the world? That will happen when the world can buy the camera.

I agree with Imran, I'm not exactly sure what everyone is asking for.

Do they want the same situation as owners? That can't exist because we have a camera that Jim said wouldn't become obsolete, then realizing that a modular camera was the way to go from the start. This program is only about getting us all on the same page, the Epic train. The Epic X is really just a Red One with a bit more latitude and resolution. And we're each paying another 40% on top of what we already invested in the body in the first place.

It's not a reward and shouldn't be thought of in that way. Red may use the words "reward our loyal customers" but all that means is they are standing by us as we stood by them. Otherwise it would be like "sorry guys, you were the guinea pigs but now the new owners get the real camera. Sucked in..."

There are no divisions in the sand other than the new ones that some people are choosing to draw.

Just my 2¢

 

[Peter Matthes]

David,

One day, I hope I can be as credible as you.

Enjoy your camera.

 

[Peter Moretti]

I don't expect that, Peter.

However, I believe that RED can, and should, deliver important puchasing information in a more suitable place than cryptically buried in a message board that is largely read by current camera owners.

Since (unlike many) I DO take the time to read this board, I had a bad feeling that something like this would happen.

As a result, I asked a friend who owns two R1 bodies. He told me that there is no way of ever knowing with RED. "It is all speculation"

I don't have money to speculate in the stock market, and I don't have money to speculate on camera purchases.

That's it in a nutshell.

I think the way info. is disseminated does leave a lot to be desired.

But I'm not sure what you're after? The Red One is much cheaper than any comparable camera. So how is buying one speculation? You know what you're getting and it's better than anything else for the price.

It's true that depeding on when you bought one you'd get better treatment in this whole staged release program. But that's a benefit for some early buyers, it doesn't make the Red One any less capable today. And I can see why Red wants to do selective testing with people who know what they are getting themselves into rather than do a mass release.

 

[James T Mather]

This was all made clear prior to the fact Guys. Gotta cut off somewhere.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Calling RED One owners "elitist/rich kids" is getting out of hand. I saved and hustled for over 2 years to get my own RED One. Our first RED One was bought by my business partner (after I evangelized the R1 and we waited 1.5 years to get it) but I who am a poor but determined geek had to save my ass off to get my own. I sold every older video system I had and then saved and saved and saved. I leap frogged all the way up from a Canon XL1s back in 2003, to a Sony FX1 in 2005, then to two HVX200's in 2006 then to a RED One body only and had to wait to get the accessories just to turn the damn thing on. All this rich kid trustifarian crap is insulting. I know in my case I was just determined as hell and passionate about the RED One. I know many others that are the same.

Exactly, Anyone who's complaining about the upgrade program is simply suffering from a severe case of entitlement.

Exactly... plus envy.

 

[George Butterfield]

Mainly I believe that RED can, and should, deliver important puchasing information in a more suitable place than cryptically buried in a message board that is largely read by current camera owners.

Red keeps costs down by doing absolutely no advertising and by having no dealers ... word of mouth, http://www.red.com and http://www.reduser.net is where you find things out. The "you'll be sorry" message sounded like a bombshell going off to me ....
RDC is different, RDC is fun ...

 

[David Battistella]

David,

One day, I hope I can be as credible as you.

Enjoy your camera.

Peter,

statements like the one you made are argumentative. If some people bought cameras as an investment then they they are taking a risk just like buying stock in a company.

I couldn't buy a whack of apple stock ten years ago but people did. Do I care if someone goes out and invests in a company by buying their stock?

Where's the anger coming from dude? That the company is not behaving the way you want it too?

Peace
David

 

[Steven Caesare]

David,

One day, I hope I can be as credible as you.

Enjoy your camera.

Peter, I said much the same thing about your posts a couple of days ago:

In your firt post you refer to "trust fund" folks being able to afford these cameras. Here you refer to them as "rich kids" just sitting on cameras.

Don't you feel that's a tad insulting to the likely thousands of these camera owners who worked hard to be able to get to the point of being able to afford an R1, and then leveraging it as an important part of their business?

I can't afford an R1 (I'm not even in the biz), but I don't assume that a majority (or even any) of R1 owners are spoiled rich brats bying cameras because they've run out of exotic sports cars to buy...

-sc

When what you say strikes multiple people the same way, sooneer or later you heave to decide if the issue is yours, and not theirs.

-sc