The "LED" light Group Buy

[Bob Gundu]

Its a slippery slope. When a company begins to distribute their products through resellers, the group buys can become more difficult.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Well said Sabyasachi!!

And I am most sure that the guys over at BB&S do indeed know this, and that they do wish for this second group buy to go thru, just that their Re-sellers need to also understand this and fill that they are not loosing out on this, but instead gaining a great deal, if they do, we all win.

And yes Bob, you are also correct!

 

[David Kuhn]

Hi David,

As I posted above, somewhere, I got 1hour 21 minutes at 100% constant power, with two linked PAG PL96e batteries, fully charged.

Thank you very much

Fury

Just reran the run time test with the Bebob V90RM's after a couple cycles, one battery ran 38 minutes and 58 seconds, the second ran 39 minutes and 5 seconds.

 

[Jeremiah Patton]

Exactly, this wouldn't be a loss for the resellers since many of us have lots of options we're looking at so we need an incentive to to jump for a big ticket light like BB&S's ... well it's a big ticket for my budget ... I mean there're RED upgrades I want and I'm a new/small business owner!

 

[Nick Fury]

Hi Anthony,

With regard to PAG linkable batteries, I ran a test with my new, freshly charged PL 96e's, with the Area 48's set at 100%. Now, I only tested with TWO of the PL 86e batteries linked, as the specs, would indicate that TWo PL 96e's are required to adequately and safely power the Area 48's. ONE PL96e provides: 96 watt-hours, 14.8V 6.5Ah, @ 8 amps continuous output, whilst the Area 48's want to see > 8 amps , for 100% power draw. Therefore, TWO linked Pl-96e's provide a greater amp draw than the Area 48's require, allowing for a 100% light output. As Anthony indicated and, from the online manual, typos aside:

Battery power operation
Not all batteries V lock or Bauer can handle the powerdraw on 100 % , there is typically 3 types; older and more modern.
The unit is consuming up to 125 watts on batteries. Type old discharges around 6 Amps meaning 6 Amps x 13 volts =78 volts =approx. 60 % Most standard around 8 Amps meaning 8Amps x 13 volts = 104 watts = approx. 80 % New types discharges more than 10 Amps meaning 10 Amps x 13 Volts = 130 watt. = approx. 100 %
If you experience that the unit switches off after a couple of seconds and reboots it may be for 2 reasons A. The battery is down ( close to empty ) B. The Battery cannot handle the load
We have made the following function to avoid the situation where the unit is set to 100 % and you cannot change it because the battery switches off before you can set it to a lower %
Disconnect the battery, reconnect the battery and within the first 5 seconds press and hold ENTER until the display reads: MAN 00 Now you can use the up and down buttons to select a level your batteries can handle.


Now the result: The total, continuous 100% run time for TWO, fully charged and linked PL 96e batteries was : 1Hour 21 Minutes.

Perhaps Ketch can add the PAG batteries to the list he had posted, as compatible with the AREA 48's.

Thank you very much

Fury

Just reran the run time test with the Bebob V90RM's after a couple cycles, one battery ran 38 minutes and 58 seconds, the second ran 39 minutes and 5 seconds.

Hi David,

I read, with interest, your results, regarding battery and light output testing. First, could you please list your source, regarding the V lock battery plate's watt rating?

Now, PAG battery specs are conservative. Also, new vs. used batteries, of course, can create a variance. Ambient temperature also creates a variance. The published rating of 150watts, differers from the 145Watt maximum, printed on the Area 48 light, due to just that (covering for extreme temperature, influencing the input draw, whilst the maximum 145 watts are required to maximally power the light, depending). The PAG PL96e battery, list at 14.8 volts and 6.5Ah, vs. 14 and 6.4. Again, though, with new batteries, it seems that the listed specs are conservative. As the lights heat, during normal operation, at least, the current draw, to give 100% illumination, may decrease-130 watts is not unexpected. The PAG intelligent batteries' software adjusts the output to match the call, from the dependent device. Remember, I was using two of these batteries, linked. Finally, the PAG batteries do not discharge completely, but retain approximately 5% reserve, for several reasons, including device protection and conduction of current, through the rails, via distally linked batteries. In short, YMMV..

I also read, with interest, your light meter test results. As you know, Sekonic meters are not the usual standard, for measuring the output of lights. Did you calibrate the meter that you used, in any manner? I am also sure you know, that inaccuracies in meters, of this type are not necessarily linear and can be worse at higher ranges. I inquire, as I have heard repeatedly that the Snapbag. added to the Area 48's increase the measured output 33-40%. But the differential you report, between "...170 Ft-Cd" (without Snapbag) and "310 Ft Cd" (with Snapbag) is significantly greater. Perhaps there is some special sauce in the bag...? Wonder what a double bagger would do...


Thank you very much

Fury

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Exactly, this wouldn't be a loss for the resellers since many of us have lots of options we're looking at so we need an incentive to to jump for a big ticket light like BB&S's ... well it's a big ticket for my budget ... I mean there're RED upgrades I want and I'm a new/small business owner!

Well Jeremiah, let's wait a little longer and see what comes out of this, last I spoked with them, they were trying really hard to find a way to make every body happy, and that includes not just the Re-Sellers, but US as well...


You can count on me either way to be sure and bring you their final decision as the immediate moment they give it to me, as I know many of you here have postponed purchases so to get in this second group buy, and others have said to not be able pt afford this lights outside the group by and that they would have to buy something cheaper, even so they do understand it would never be of the same equality, so for them and all of you that already has purchase them in the first group buy and want fee more units, as well as for the new want to be Area 48 owners, I'll continue to press on this till we do have their final answer for the good or the bad, I'll be here till the absolute end, on that you count on it!!

 

[David Kuhn]

Hi David,

I read, with interest, your results, regarding battery and light output testing. First, could you please list your source, regarding the V lock battery plate's watt rating?

Now, PAG battery specs are conservative. Also, new vs. used batteries, of course, can create a variance. Ambient temperature also creates a variance. The published rating of 150watts, differers from the 145Watt maximum, printed on the Area 48 light, due to just that (covering for extreme temperature, influencing the input draw, whilst the maximum 145 watts are required to maximally power the light, depending). The PAG PL96e battery, list at 14.8 volts and 6.5Ah, vs. 14 and 6.4. Again, though, with new batteries, it seems that the listed specs are conservative. As the lights heat, during normal operation, at least, the current draw, to give 100% illumination, may decrease-130 watts is not unexpected. The PAG intelligent batteries' software adjusts the output to match the call, from the dependent device. Remember, I was using two of these batteries, linked. Finally, the PAG batteries do not discharge completely, but retain approximately 5% reserve, for several reasons, including device protection and conduction of current, through the rails, via distally linked batteries. In short, YMMV..

I also read, with interest, your light meter test results. As you know, Sekonic meters are not the usual standard, for measuring the output of lights. Did you calibrate the meter that you used, in any manner? I am also sure you know, that inaccuracies in meters, of this type are not necessarily linear and can be worse at higher ranges. I inquire, as I have heard repeatedly that the Snapbag. added to the Area 48's increase the measured output 33-40%. But the differential you report, between "...170 Ft-Cd" (without Snapbag) and "310 Ft Cd" (with Snapbag) is significantly greater. Perhaps there is some special sauce in the bag...? Wonder what a double bagger would do...


Thank you very much

Fury

Answers to your Questions:

- The '70 Watt Max' I mentioned was from a label on the bottom of the V-Mount accessory itself (as received).
- I'm not sure how the Bebob batteries manage their 'full discharged' state, but I did notice that they did nearly completely discharge without affecting illumination level, after the first time the panel shut down for low battery, I was able to lower the setting and the light would then run again for a few minutes (lowered to 25), but not very long.
- I gave the illumination level with the disclaimer that I didn't expect a particularly accurate result, I don't have time at the moment to take the panel to the lab to play with so I ran these quick tests as I worked on other things. I was actually more interested in the illumination level from AC to Battery (since some batteries can't seem to drive the panel to the same brightness as the AC) and how consistent light output was though the full discharge duration of the battery. The absolute value of illumination isn't of huge interest to me... the panel is brighter than any other non-strobed area panel I've got. The tests I'll actually take it to the lab for will be field flatness (how uniform the backlight is across it's area) and color temp/uniformity. Field flatness is probably not something that Area 48 worries much about, but it would open up it's use in applications that require uniform backlighting (high speed imaging, line scan imaging). If I can use it in those areas in addition to portable machine vision apps it would be great (and I'd be buying a second one pretty quickly).

- So the snapbag is an interesting beast... the amount of additional illumination you'll get from a reflector like that is going to be very dependent on where you're measuring. I'd guess the 33-40% is probably for a longer measuring distance? I think the illumination level boost will drop off with distance (not tested... just from looking at how it works) but I was also pretty surprised by the result. For the illumination meter to be faulty would imply a large non-linearity in the response of the meter... but if you look at the table of output settings vs. illumination you'll see that it's fairly straight (if anything it ramps more at low illumination levels than at high) so while I'm sure the values aren't that accurate, I don't think the relative change is that far off - again... not a lab quality test - just some interesting relative data.

So what did those test tell me? I'd say it's a well designed light source, able to provide uniform energy to the phosphor panel through the entire battery cycle, the heatsink got warm but not scorching, the Snapbag will be a useful add-on for me (where often I'm just trying to dump as much light onto something as possible), and the batteries are well matched to the panel, able to go through a full discharge cycle providing as much current as the panel is asking for, not leaving much residual (not sure if Li-Mang batteries have memory, but I recall some of the early high current cells needing to be fully discharged on a resister rig before recharging to maximize their life - though that was many years ago). It's a moderately priced light source so I think I'll find a number of application spaces where it could come in handy... good buy for me!

 

[Ulrik Gerber]

One thing that makes me a bit nervous is that full panel power is rated at 150W... but I see that the V-Mount they shipped is only rated for 70W, does this mean I'm overloading the V-Mount by >200% when running on Battery? I suspect it does and wonder if it will cause problems.

Dear David,

AREA 48 ON batteries or AC

The rating of the AREA 48 is 150 watt on ac due to the loss in the desktop powersupply using14 volts DC with batteries the total powerdraw is max 125 watts @ 100 % .

Concerning the 70 w max. sticker on the V lock plate it is a sticker mounted on the v lock plate when we receive it from the manufacturer and is meant for the D tap plug that is normally mounted in this position ( so please disregard this sticker that should have been removed in production here ) we can assure that the v lock plate connector as well as the 4 pin xlr connector and square of the cable going to the area48 is approved for the 125 watt powerdraw.

Best regards,
Ulrik
Brother, Brother & Sons

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Thanks for the update Ulrik!

 

[Nick Fury]

Dear David,

AREA 48 ON batteries or AC

The rating of the AREA 48 is 150 watt on ac due to the loss in the desktop powersupply using14 volts DC with batteries the total powerdraw is max 125 watts @ 100 % .

Concerning the 70 w max. sticker on the V lock plate it is a sticker mounted on the v lock plate when we receive it from the manufacturer and is meant for the D tap plug that is normally mounted in this position ( so please disregard this sticker that should have been removed in production here ) we can assure that the v lock plate connector as well as the 4 pin xlr connector and square of the cable going to the area48 is approved for the 125 watt powerdraw.

Best regards,
Ulrik
Brother, Brother & Sons

hi Ulrik!

Thanks for the info and your efforts with the area 48 lights. No stickers BTW on any of my three V mounts.

Thank you very much

Fury

 

[David Kuhn]

So I'm the only one who's got this on their v-mount?

 

[Sabyasachi Patra]

Can someone suggest a V Lock battery which works best with this light and is within the airlines carry on limits?

 

[bart sozanski]

Hello, I'm very interested in those lights. I would like to join if we can get another group buy going.

 

[Jeremiah Patton]

I had to buy some cheap-o Chinese lights to tide me over just in cast this group buy is a go ... but I still have some cash flow sitting on the side. Still waiting and ever hopeful!:driving:

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Can someone suggest a V Lock battery which works best with this light and is within the airlines carry on limits?

I use the Bebob Rouge 90's with no problem Sabyasachi, but the Blue Shape 100's should also work with absolutely no problems.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

UPDATE:

Sorry to report that unfortunately despite of all my efforts to bring a second group buy to fruition, do to the now Re-seller system, this is not going to work out...

There might still be the possibility to get some Accessory freebie when buying multiple units, but I have no final word on that either at this time.


We'll be sure to update this thread if that happens, but at this time I would no longer count on anything happening here... Truly sorry, I tried!!

 

[Jeremiah Patton]

Sad to hear it, but thanks for all your efforts Ketch!

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

Cool, now I can put this to rest.

 

[Kwan Khan]

Cool, now I can put this to rest.

Same here

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Sad to hear it, but thanks for all your efforts Ketch!

My pleasure!!

Sorry again didn't work out.