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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The "LED" light Group Buy

Mitch, I have loots of respect for you, and I hope you do the same for me, so also do to respect and proper etiquette, share your opinions and most welcome is your presence here, however please try not to push too hard any sales here on my Thread, I have already invited every one to cruise NAB and see for themselves this lights and any other light on the floor, just don't side track and push what you sale in this thread, that is all that I ask, thanks!!


Antony Newman said:
Ketch,

Apologies if my questions and updates sound a bit technical - if I can convince myself these panels are right for me, the logic may help others join the group buy!

My guess is that you have the Bebop V90RM battery.
+) It can happily supply 9 amps of current.
+) Maximum load is 12 amps.
Your battery can drive the Area48 panels at full brightness until it is empty

What is useful to know is that if someone's battery cannot supply enough current and trips out - they just need to dim the light a bit and switch it back on. This would mean that people can use V-lock batteries with less then 9.5 Amps available.

Those (like myself) with PAG's linkable batteries can choose to run 1 x battery at or beyond its 'nominal' rating of 6.5A (which means the battery isn't stressed), or link 2 x (or more) up and not concern themselves that that the battery is being overdriven.

AJ
Click to expand...

Ha ha, no apologies needed here Antony, I in fact appreciate your input here!!



Russ Fill said:
Ketch have you used this light for any high frame rate/ slomo stuff? And what was the results and frame rates if this applies.
Thanks for the info.
Click to expand...

Yes Russ I have, in fact the frame grab above of M.Vittoria with the Monochrome was shot @96fps, which is what I always suggest any one to shoot at to pull Stills, or shoot at lower fps but at a much lower Angle like 45.


Steve Sherrick said:
Ketch, do you have any R3Ds available (full color)? Curious to see the color rendition of these fixtures.

Thanks for sharing this with the community.
Click to expand...

Yes of course I do Steve, from both the M8 in RGB and the Monochrome in B&W.

Because we are updating our Server and rebutting our Sites I have no way to send them to you, but email me your FTP with password and I'll send them to you with pleasure, just keep in mind that this shots were not talent to test the lights but to cast our Talent for our RoaB movie.


Bruce Allen said:
I'm definitely interested. Thanks for organizing this, Ketch!

I would love an actual graph of the spectrum emitted, please.

CRI doesn't tell the full story because it just measures specific color patches. Eg you can have a light with high CRI but some significant issues in the spectrum.

That would be awesome if they could post their spectrum so that we could compare with the others who have posted theirs.

Sorry. I am the crazy color guy as usual. BTW, spectrum does not have to be perfect at all. The other ones have small spikes too. I just would like to know before buying! Thank you!

Also: aren't those blue/UV LED lights that energize the diffuse panel? I would think that the reason you aren't allowed to use it without the diffuser would be because of sending too much UV at folks, not because it is "too bright", right?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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My pleasure Bruce,

I'll ask for the Spectrum Graph for you and have it posted here s son as they send it to me.

Yes you are also correct it is in fact for both their brightness and UV emission out of the blu LED's that there is such cations taken.

Don't worry, I am the most critical individual when it comes to lighting, so just keep any questions you might have in order to be convinced that this are the right fixtures for you, and I'll try and answer them all in a timely fashion, keeping in consideration that some of this questions will get forwarded back to the manufacturer and then back to me to then post here... ;)
 
My apologies Ketch. I didn't mean to sidetrack your group buy. I'm actually super psyched to see these lights coming to market. I'll be definitely leaving some money in my budget for new lighting. I'll be sure to check these out at NAB. I'm glad the group buy allows the time to research them. Thanks again for organizing this.
 
Bob, wasn't you, I am directing my self to Mitch , even so we al much appreciate his inputs in this forum and have purchased goods at Abelcine, this is a Group buy about a product He does not sale, and He should not use this Group buy to promote in any way a different product, just because He sales it.

Every one here has been first hand instructed by me and given time till after NAB to make an informed decision, so I in respect of this brought up such point for him to stop marketing any other product here, nothing to do with you buddy!!
 
Sorry Ketch, I was telling about those examples as a way to help introduce people to Remote Phosphor lighting in general. Someone noted that they had not seen samples online so I pointed out a spot. I hope for the best for you and the group buy with this product line. Competition is always a good thing, as is an informed clientele. All the best.
 
Ketch,

Earlier in the thread these are said to be indoor only. Why is that? I have a project coming up this summer that will be shot in a very remote location, no power, and difficulty getting a generator in. I've been looking at all the available LED lights and these seem ideal, but what about them makes them unsuitable for outdoor shoots? We'd be filming in California mid-summer, so there'd be no issue of rain or humidity...

Thank you sir!
 
Bruce Allen said:
Also: aren't those blue/UV LED lights that energize the diffuse panel? I would think that the reason you aren't allowed to use it without the diffuser would be because of sending too much UV at folks, not because it is "too bright", right?
Click to expand...

Bruce,

Filling in some info: First, what you are referring to as a "diffuse panel" on the front of the fixture is actually the source of the light. It is a polycarbonate panel that is flexible which is coated with a mix of phosphors. The blue LED's inside the fixture excite the phosphor - producing the light.

Noteworthy is the fact that all of the energy from the blue LED's remains inside - with the excited phosphor coating on the "outside" producing the white light, there is no UR or IR emitted from the fixture.


As far as the danger from LED's - at the right level, all LED's can be damaging to your eyes and skin by exposure to ultraviolet, blue light (400-480 nm) and infrared. Interestingly, many of the "white" LED's use a blue emitting die so they can cause damage as well.

There is a blue phosphor coating applied to a standard LED to help achieve a white light. Part of the process to remove spikes and produce a higher CRI.
Where the remote phosphor shines (no pun intended) is the fact that the coating on the polycarbonate substrate is a more precise manufacturing process than trying to coat individual LED's.
In this case, even more control is achieved with remote phosphor since it's characteristics do not degrade by exposure to operational heating (not so with many other sources such as tungsten and LED).

To safety; the blue LED's are more likely to cause photo-chemical damage to the retina. The eye is less responsive to blue light in the visible spectrum than it is to white - so a blue LED that is actually brighter than a white LED may appear dimmer - hence, you may look at it longer without being aware of damage to your retina occurring.
(Red and green LED's do not cause the same damage to the retina).

One paper that deals with safety issues can be found at http://www.icnirp.de/documents/Led.pdf (content is more for engineers, not casual reading)

Last thought for this entry - no matter who is manufacturing these fixtures, they should not be referred to as "LED lighting" - "Remote Phosphor" is a totally different technology. Very different than how a traditional LED fixture works - not an accurate comparison.
Again, the sole purpose of the blue LED's inside the fixture is to produce an energy wavelength that will excite the phosphor. That coating is where the light comes from.
 
Tim Myers said:
Ketch,

Earlier in the thread these are said to be indoor only. Why is that? I have a project coming up this summer that will be shot in a very remote location, no power, and difficulty getting a generator in. I've been looking at all the available LED lights and these seem ideal, but what about them makes them unsuitable for outdoor shoots? We'd be filming in California mid-summer, so there'd be no issue of rain or humidity...

Thank you sir!
Click to expand...

Antony Newman said:
@Tim,

http://brothers-sons.dk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Area48Soft_HardwareManual.pdf

Page 7 : "This fixture is for indoor use only."

AJ
Click to expand...

Brett Harrison said:
Wow, very versatile. Finger resting on the trigger.
Click to expand...


They are ABSOLUTELY for indoor and outdoor use as are all the lights, on top of it, this have a detachable accessory V-Lock Battery plate, exactly to allow for this Fixtures to be used not only OUT DOORS but also in remote locations without power.


PS: Thanks for linking the PDF page Antony.
 
Russ Fill said:
Ketch have you used this light for any high frame rate/ slomo stuff? And what was the results and frame rates if this applies.
Thanks for the info.
Click to expand...


Okay Russ, the frame below is just a screen grab of a test done at super high speed of 19600fps, so this are the perfect Soft LED's fixtures to use for Slow Motion and Green Screen as well.


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Very interested...let me know...

Thanks Ketch...


PCG
 
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KETCH ROSSi said:
And with Wiliam's 2 units, we are 3 units away to jump this Group Buy to 20% discount... ;)


For all considering, make sure to read out thru the posts for all needed info on the Area 48 Soft LED fixtures, a bunch of great questions form Antony were answered on Post #2 of Page 1 in this thread.
Click to expand...



Thank you, Ketch!
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
My pleasure Brandon, and thanks to you and all that have already joined this Group Buy, our goal is to pass the 31 Units and get the full 25% Discount to every one, making this an incredibly great deal on what I consider the TOP NOTCH LED's in the market!!
Click to expand...

Ketch,

Absolutely in favor of what you are doing to make this available to the community and working to make a great group buy - but, these are "Remote Phosphor" lighting fixtures, not LED's.
As mentioned in prior posts, the light is coming from a phosphor coating on a polycarbonate substrate that is excited by a narrow wavelength energy from a blue LED.
If you were to remove that coated substrate, you would have very little luminance coming from the fixture (and it would not be white).

Not trying to pick at it, just wanted to ensure that we refer to our tools with the appropriate terminology.
Calling it what it is does not take anything away from the technology. In fact, it helps to differentiate these lights from others. To me, that is a plus.

Also, some have pointed out that the manual refers to the fixture as "indoor use only".
That may be a safety issue - it may not be protected from producing a shock hazard when raindrops fall.... Just as some lunch boxes are rated for outdoor use, others are not.
Perhaps B,B & S can clarify so that any confusion is eliminated.


Carry on!!!
 
Brian,

you have so far participated with very good info on the way Phosphor Media works, and your question here is a legit one, to which I answer that this are by all means LED Fixtures, since they are powered by 48 LED Bulbs, it does not matter if this are coated in Blue and or if a Phosphor Media is place in front of them, to allow this fixture to have the Brightest possible even soft illumination in it's class, and allow for absolute NO Flickering at all, and tested so with camera speeds up to 20000fps.

As far as for it's use, again, this are Light Fixtures just like any other when it comes to their function in the indoors or outdoors, and because they can indeed be also used outdoors they have the option to be powered by Batteries, of course like any other standard electronic light fixture, this need to be properly operated, and can't be used under the Rain, as they are NOT waterproof, or splash proof, other then that use them outdoors with absolutely no problem at all.
 
It's just a question of where you put your phosphor :)

As you probably know, most phosphor based white LEDs are blue LEDs with a phosphor coating that broadens the wavelengths to make the light white.
Now the problem with phosphor based white leads is that the heat produced by the diode (LED) can damage the phosphor coating, therefore you can apply only a limited amount of materials that can take that kind of heating. Remote phosphor helps to avoid this problem by distancing the phosphor coating from the heat of the diode, alas giving you the possibility to use a wider range of materials in the phosphor diffusion plate (remote phosphor plate) which results in better diffusion, higher CRI, maintenance of the color temperature while dimming and a longer endurance of the chosen color temperature over time.

So there are a lot of advantages to remote phosphor LED units while being basically the same.

Best regards,
Ulrik Gerber (BB&S)
 
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@Ketch,

Thanks for answers to all my questions! I have a couple more:

+) Barndoors: The ones on the Area48 site are Black. The photos uploaded on RU have Silver (reflective) surface.
Q15) Is only one of these (Silver or Black) included in the package? Is there benefit having both? Why did you (if you have already) choose the silver one?

+) Q16) SNAPBAG : Is this same as the '2058 Softbag 1 unit'. Is the bag double unit 2 x single bags, or a fitting that goes over two x Area48 lights?

+) Q17) The BBS website mentions that there is 'Reflective Scrim' accessory. Is this the same as the SNAPBAG / SOFTBAG?

Thanks for the spectral charts too. The 5600K 'Media Panel' plot looks very similar to another very high extended CRI plot on the market. The 3200K looks like its got a very consistent blue end of the spectrum too. I don't think anything else can be 'guessed' from these - other than there are no 'unhealthy' spikes or dips - which is good news.

AJ
 
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