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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Hobbit...

I am listening to the audio book of "The Hobbit" now and imagining what magic PJ and crew will do to bring it alive is very exciting. And to think that it is being filmed with Epics is a statement, IMHO, that RED "has arrived."
 
Gary Stone said:
OK. I hope I don't sound like a massive idiot here.

So, you hear of films shot in 24fps then projected in 48fps. I assume this is done by printing each frame twice and projecting it in double time? I also assume this is to combat juddering and strobing.

48fps means there would be much less motion blur. So is there any possibility that shooting 48 fps is a way of being able to "control" the amount of motion blur in post? As in "you can't get rid of too much, but you can add it in later"?

Is that what all the huh bub is about?
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No, currently movies are shot at 24fps for acceptably smooth motion, but displaying/projecting an image our eyes are sensitive to flicker up to about 48fps (actually we can still see flicker at 48fps, but it's close enough to the limit that we've got used to it), so each frame is displayed twice by use of a blankng shutter going twice as fast to increase the flicker rate to 48fps - they don't print each frame twice, they display each frame twice. Shooting 24fps, projecting 24fps with 48fps shutter does not affect motion juddering or strobing on fast relative camera and subject movement. That was set at the acquisition stage.

Shooting at 48fps, and displaying 48fps will have smoother motion rendering and less strobing, but in itself is not a tool for post motion blur control, although you're right in that motion blur can always be added in post.

The hub bub is that film purists maintain that 48fps is similar to the 50Hz/60Hz acquisition rate of TV/video, so has more TV/video like characteristics.
 
Movies shot with 48fps with global shutter 1/48sek, will have the same motion blur as a movie shot with 24fps and 180 degree shutter 1/48sek.

But with less motion judder and strobing, better color and optical registration and can be projected with double or triple flash, 96Hz or 144Hz, diplaying even better technically .

Answering this; How often does people shoot 24fps with global shutter?

Will answer this; How often will one need to add motion blur in post on a 48fps movie?
 
All I can say is that I've watched the trailer and you can really tell in a lot of places that it's more than 24fps. I did NOT like it. In his blog (or whatever you may call it) on Facebook, Peter said that 48fps makes the motion more lifelike and I agree with him on that. But in my humble opinion, we love movies so much because they are fiction and "un–lifelike".
 
Daniil Vyshemirskyi said:
All I can say is that I've watched the trailer and you can really tell in a lot of places that it's more than 24fps. I did NOT like it. In his blog (or whatever you may call it) on Facebook, Peter said that 48fps makes the motion more lifelike and I agree with him on that. But in my humble opinion, we love movies so much because they are fiction and "un–lifelike".
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Which trailer are you referring to?
 
Iannis Holwech said:
Movies shot with 48fps with global shutter 1/48sek, will have the same motion blur as a movie shot with 24fps and 180 degree shutter 1/48sek.

But with less motion judder and strobing, better color and optical registration and can be projected with double or triple flash, 96Hz or 144Hz, diplaying even better technically .

Answering this; How often does people shoot 24fps with global shutter?

Will answer this; How often will one need to add motion blur in post on a 48fps movie?
Click to expand...

Where do u guys get this silly ideas from, 360 degree shutter on 48fps is equal to 180 degree shutter at 24fps. Why just because both are 1/48 of a sec. Strangest theory i have ever heard...........
 
Daniil Vyshemirskyi said:
All I can say is that I've watched the trailer and you can really tell in a lot of places that it's more than 24fps. I did NOT like it. In his blog (or whatever you may call it) on Facebook, Peter said that 48fps makes the motion more lifelike and I agree with him on that. But in my humble opinion, we love movies so much because they are fiction and "un–lifelike".
Click to expand...

Which trailer are you talking about daniil,as far as the hobbit is concerned there are just some fake trailers on youtube composed of lord of the rings footage. i hope u are not reffering to those...........
 
Iannis Holwech said:
Movies shot with 48fps with global shutter 1/48sek, will have the same motion blur as a movie shot with 24fps and 180 degree shutter 1/48sek.

But with less motion judder and strobing, better color and optical registration and can be projected with double or triple flash, 96Hz or 144Hz, diplaying even better technically .

Answering this; How often does people shoot 24fps with global shutter?

Will answer this; How often will one need to add motion blur in post on a 48fps movie?

Rohan B said:
Where do u guys get this silly ideas from, 360 degree shutter on 48fps is equal to 180 degree shutter at 24fps. Why just because both are 1/48 of a sec. Strangest theory i have ever heard...........
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

:confused: Pretty confusing reaction....
 
Iannis Holwech said:
:confused: Pretty confusing reaction....
Click to expand...

Let me make it simple, 48fps if shot on 1/48 means using a 360 degree shutter but 24fps shot on 1/48 means a 180 degree shutter. 1/48 on 48fps is not the same as 1/48 on 24fps and so it will not have the same kind of motion characteristics or blur. if you shoot 48 fps with 1/48 shutter you will get same kind of blur that you will get if you shoot 24fps on 1/24 shutter. If you want the 180 degree motion characteristics on 48fps you will have to set the shutter at 1/96 of a sec,just the way hobbit is being shot... hope this helps clear the confusion.
 
180 degree shutter is basically 1/frame rate multiplied by 2 ,simple 24fps therefore 1/24 x 2 =1/48
30fps therefore 1/30 x 2 =1/60
48fps therefore 1/48 x 2 =1/96
60fps therefore 1/60 x 2 =1/120
the most simple way to calculate the 180 degree shutter..........
 
Rohan B said:
Which trailer are you talking about daniil,as far as the hobbit is concerned there are just some fake trailers on youtube composed of lord of the rings footage. i hope u are not reffering to those...........
Click to expand...

I might have been fooled regarding a trailer. :) But I still stand on the point that we like 24fps, because its unlifelike.
 
I'd say you get different characteristics on 48fps with 180° (1/96th of a second) or 360°(1/48th) shutters as well as 24fps with 180° (1/48th) or 360° (1/24th). There are two variables here that are responsible for the display of movement: 1) how long is each frame exposed and 2) how much time is not exposed in between frames. That way none of the 4 variants can look the same.
 
Daniil Vyshemirskyi said:
I might have been fooled regarding a trailer. :) But I still stand on the point that we like 24fps, because its unlifelike.
Click to expand...

Even i agree with you on the point of 24fps, buts lets not scoff at 48fps until we see what the hobbit turns out to be. This movie will tell us whether higher frame rates are what future movies will be shot on or not.........
 
I have a question though: are Blu-Ray-Players and Consumer TVs capable of displaying 48 fps?
 
Felix K. said:
I'd say you get different characteristics on 48fps with 180° (1/96th of a second) or 360°(1/48th) shutters as well as 24fps with 180° (1/48th) or 360° (1/24th). There are two variables here that are responsible for the display of movement: 1) how long is each frame exposed and 2) how much time is not exposed in between frames. That way none of the 4 variants can look the same.
Click to expand...

I agree with you felix, three things define motion character, 1>how many frames are their in a second,2>whether the fames are progressive or interlaced,3> and the shutter angle. But i was talking about only the shutter and to get a 180 degree shutter look on 48fps i would definitely have to set the shutter at 1/96sec ,this is what will replicate shooting 48fps on motion picture film with a 180 degree mechanical shutter............
 
Felix K. said:
I have a question though: are Blu-Ray-Players and Consumer TVs capable of displaying 48 fps?
Click to expand...

as far as i know they are not,but they can be programed to,its completely possible if that becomes the standard....
 
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