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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Hobbit trailer...

Wonderful images. Thanks Peter! Can't wait to see the movie.

Graeme
 
What I look forward to see is if this Movie will be released at 4k in 3D... ;)


I guess what I hope more is to play it at Home on my new RED LASER 4K Projector he he.

I went from a collection of HDS to a collection of DVD's and now of Blue Rays, both in 2D and 3D...

Next needs to be a 4K format... ;)

And movies like this sure will make it worth every penny spent!!
 
Is it just me ?... i look at this and yes its great but i cant help feeling that its looks hyper clean and sharp.... thats crazy talk right ?...i have not seen 4k yet..... All i can do is imagine that on the big screen this is like looking through a window literally.....then yes wow find my socks cus they been knocked off.....i guess it cant be realised until i have seen it on this 4k 3d thinga-me-bob ;).....i have a hopeful feeling the magic of cinema is back.

Love it
 
OK, let me get this straight... The scarlet can shoot almost the same image as this (not at 48fps or in 5k at 24fps) and your are selling the brain, SSD and Side handle for how much??? F*&% me, please don't tell jim this before my camera ships, he may jack the price 10 times. I used to dream big, but for some reason my dreams have become epic lately. Thanks guys!
 
Michael Dalton said:
OK, let me get this straight... The scarlet can shoot almost the same image as this (not at 48fps or in 5k at 24fps) and your are selling the brain, SSD and Side handle for how much??? F*&% me, please don't tell jim this before my camera ships, he may jack the price 10 times. I used to dream big, but for some reason my dreams have become epic lately. Thanks guys!
Click to expand...
Your Scarlet will make wonderful images, yes. But the 5K resolution is a substantial component that you won't have. Certainly on the big screen this will make a difference. Having the ability to go to 3:1 for VFX also substantial, although my guess is most of The Hobbit was shot at 5:1 REDCODE. But most importantly, these images you are seeing are the result of an amazing production team from the DP to set design, costuming, VFX, etc. If you can put together that kind of talent, then yes the Scarlet should be capable of some amazing imagery.

One thing I found interesting from the BTS videos from Peter was the use of extra red in the makeup. It's kind of funny seeing the actors in the BTS because they look a bit weird, but on camera look normal. It's worth watching these BTS videos to pick up some techniques they are using to get the most out of the cameras.

The trailer looks fantastic and I'm looking forward to seeing the film.

EDIT: My statement about the use of extra red in the makeup is in the context of 3D. Others have pointed out that my statement above may be misleading, and I wanted to clarify it. Please don't go adding tons of red makeup to your actors, unless you need to for a specific purpose such is the case with what they are doing with The Hobbit 3D.
 
I think it looks really really good. I think some feels it's "off" because it's a "down convert" from material that has been shot for the intention of 4K 3D at higher frame rate (at least that's the last I've heard about how it's shot). I was afraid that it would look too "smooth" in the movements, that it would look almost like home video (in the movement, not resolution, colors, lightning etc). When I heard that they increased the motion blur to 360 degrees to balance the 48 fps I was a little sceptic and thought it would look even more home video... but

This trailer just punctured a hole in all those concerns, it looks great and what an epic end to the Red Digital Cinema saga... but as we know it, real life doesn't end. Or well, movies continues too I guess :)
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Your Scarlet will make wonderful images, yes. But the 5K resolution is a substantial component that you won't have. Certainly on the big screen this will make a difference. Having the ability to go to 3:1 for VFX also substantial, although my guess is most of The Hobbit was shot at 5:1 REDCODE. But most importantly, these images you are seeing are the result of an amazing production team from the DP to set design, costuming, VFX, etc. If you can put together that kind of talent, then yes the Scarlet should be capable of some amazing imagery. .
Click to expand...

Steve, I meant this more like a tip of the hat to Red about what they managed to deliver and how much they are selling for... the fact we can shoot the same sensor as the hobbit for under 10k... amazing! Of course what I can do with a camera is one thing and what PJ and his team can do is another. 5k vs 4k and RC 3:1, that is why I have an epic on order for a project next year.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
One thing I found interesting from the BTS videos from Peter was the use of extra red in the makeup. It's kind of funny seeing the actors in the BTS because they look a bit weird, but on camera look normal. It's worth watching these BTS videos to pick up some techniques they are using to get the most out of the cameras.
Click to expand...



You have to be careful here, because it was to compensate for colors lost due to the polarization of the 3d rig. Otherwise adding red could make your image too red! lol
 
Not to rain on the parade here.... but the very first shot - thats stuttery as hell. I guess its cause we are seeing only half the framerate but thats just horrible - they said it would be watchable in 24 fps - quite clearly its not. And I totally do not dig the rest of the trailer either - some of the exteriors have this 90s video look to it (sans burnouts of course - but the colors - *shudder* for a fantasy nonetheless ). Flame away but thats my opinion. I am sure its quite an achievement but I am seriously underwhelmed - especially since I just saw the trailer for the dragon girl tattoo thingy and that IS dead gorgeous - almost every frame of it.

Have we gone overboard a bit with the reality look? Is the lack of motion blur giving this gut wrenching feeling of "video 90s"? Don´t know -
need to watch it in a theater with 48fps and 3d to make final judgement…
 
Jeffrey T. Morgan said:
You have to be careful here, because it was to compensate for colors lost due to the polarization of the 3d rig. Otherwise adding red could make your image too red! lol
Click to expand...
Jeffrey, thanks for adding that. I can see how my statement might have been misleading. Yes, this is in the context of 3D and it is also in the context of the look they are going after. Sorry for not being more clear about that.
 
I kinda got the same uneasy feeling about the motion, especially during pans. Lately I've seen many conversion tests done by another project that plans to shoot and project theatrically at 48fps, and the 24fps versions still look weird. And believe me, these are people who the same resources as PJ. I think that by the time The Hobbit nears premiere, a frame blending technique will have been perfected where this strange motion feeling has been erased, but I dare say, for now, it is very much there.

Now, the images look outstanding, effortlessly clean, sharp and "subtly saturated" which is the term I've coined for Epic colors. Interestingly, I think that some of the "video" feel that some complain about may not have so much to do with frame rate but with the fact that the Epic footage is NOTICEABLY sharper than film, so even during pans and moves, objects and characters retain much more detail due to the 5K resolution. You ever noticed before the texture on the edge of the leaves on the gardens of the Shire? It is there now, but it wasn't before. And so it goes with every fold in the clothing, every strand of hair, every knot in the wood of the buildings, etc. It is a new aesthetic to be sure, but once it sets in, it is just as beautiful as the softer, thicker look of film. Pirates 4 had that look and I enjoyed it very much. Hugo on the other side, shot on Alexa, though a wonderful story, felt noticeably softer and chunkier...
 
fALk Gärtner said:
Not to rain on the parade here.... but the very first shot - thats stuttery as hell. I guess its cause we are seeing only half the framerate but thats just horrible - they said it would be watchable in 24 fps - quite clearly its not. And I totally do not dig the rest of the trailer either - some of the exteriors have this 90s video look to it (sans burnouts of course - but the colors - *shudder* for a fantasy nonetheless ). Flame away but thats my opinion. I am sure its quite an achievement but I am seriously underwhelmed - especially since I just saw the trailer for the dragon girl tattoo thingy and that IS dead gorgeous - almost every frame of it.

Have we gone overboard a bit with the reality look? Is the lack of motion blur giving this gut wrenching feeling of "video 90s"? Don´t know -
need to watch it in a theater with 48fps and 3d to make final judgement…
Click to expand...

Uh oh… Oh flump…

That stillness of a moving image has (as you know) has been debated for years on REDUSER.

Jim has always maintained that skew was good over global shutter as it looks less sterile…

But when you go to higher frame rates I am assuming effective skew is cut considerably.

Interesting that Cameron is pushing for higher frame rate standards for S-3d but that’s a guy that uses in some cases 85%CG in a live action movie.

I have a lot experience with hyper realistic VR environments that are rendered real time. So 24-30fps is nice but when you go over that frame rate then you do get into to this sort of surreal silky smooth motion. In 3d/s-3d it seems almost over penetrating to the brain… I know that’s weird thing to say. I think the partial slower frame rate with even blank or black screen can go easier on the stereoscopic pathways in the brain. I think the likes of Cameron and perhaps Peter Jackson want you to have that “penetrating” psycho-visual brain experience… This is almost shades of “Clock work Orange”.

My question Falk… do the stereo images appear to have a good dimensionality in terms of 3d texture for live subjects or is it a bit flat and not that different from something that has been dimensionalized? I know it’s not fair to judge a process by a trailer.


“Daddy why are we going to see Tin Tin… I thought you hate Tin Tin,” “Shhhh…” “don’t worry we’ll leave before the movie starts… and get ice cream.... Don’t tell your mother! (Here's twenty bucks... shhh!)”.


Cheers,

Eric

[Falk from that/your new avi I think we were separated at birth but I think I have at least 20 years on you…]
 

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Magnificent work all around. What's PJ going to do next?

Jim, may I ask this favor, please relay to PJ that a Reduser respectfully requests that he considers making Moby Dick.
Thank you.
 
I find it strange that people talk about it feeling like stutter. Wouldn't it be the other way around? If they shot 48 fps at a degree of 360, the motion blur should be smoother (longer). So when doing the conversion to 24 fps I assume there would be some difference from traditional material, but the stutter could be a lot of different things. It could be how it's viewed, it could be the codec, it could be your monitor. If you judge the movie, Peter, Epic and DP based on an internet stream trailer you should have a reality check, there are too many factors to count in before judging.

The first thing, a 90's look? Well, the first trilogy was shot in the 90's so it might just be that they try to achieve a similar look, which is good, but I still disagree, it looks good, much better then most crap out there. Second, I assume that the DOF is based on it being shot for 3D. This is good and it's also great to see big scale environments in focus rather then limiting the world. The immersion, be it 2D or 3D will be much better if the DOF is longer for this type of movie and that "style" or way of filming might be more 90's then todays films. But 3D demands certain things to be good, it's a whole new way of thinking cinematically. The "haters" of 3D, as I see it, only hate it out of fear, fear of not being able to see the 3D effect, fear of not affording a 3D television, fear of not knowing how to handle it, well get over it.
Learn how to shoot 3D and do it well instead, this is what they seem to be doing with this movie. The 48 fps will increase the quality of 3D, it will be less flickery and more immersed.

I thought the conversion to 24 fps would look awful, but I'm very positive about what I've seen here, at least what I can see out of an internet stream. I also think that when this comes out in cinemas, you will want to see it at 48 fps in 3D, nothing else. When it comes out on bluray or similar you would want to see it in the same way. If you aren't an enthusiast about watching movies in the way they were shot, then I don't think you are a person that will see the drawbacks of the 24 fps conversion. A lot of people can't see details, be them good or bad, when it comes to cinematography.
 
I've heard people say the RED's color is lifeless and desaturated. I have no idea what they're talking about after seeing the Hobbit trailer. The most beautiful color I've ever seen.
 
I think the higher frame rates and more globally shuttered looking images helps fast action sequences in S-3d. These tend to fall apart at slower frame rates (or are difficult to perceive) so I think ironically stiller looking more sterile images with greater sharpness contrast and texture moving much faster help the stereo perception of faster paced action more in S-3d.

Perhaps a simple but useful tradeoff I think, time will tell...

Cheers,

Eric
 
I seriously need to stop reading threads like this at work. Getting all choked up like this is doing nothing for my reputation as a hard-ass sarcastic bony-hearted code guru.

The mark of the truly great is how much they appreciate the efforts of others, and how much always more they ask of themselves.

Chris
 
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