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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Future of Red One

I don't doubt it is possible to design new components for R1 to accommodate Dragon, but I can understand why they would chose to put their efforts into the future of Red rather than it's past. If we carry all of our past baggage with us continually it will load us down and we become sluggish. Red needs to remain agile in order to stay on top, and that is in the best interest of all RedUsers. I hate to refer to the cornerstone of the company as "past baggage" because it implies a negative that doesn't really apply, but if Jim & Co. have to carry Red One around their necks for much longer it will certainly become a negative influence. Eyes forward people!

Sure it was an economic descision... not just economics of finance but also of manpower resources. The engineers and designers at Red undoubtedly have their hands full already and don't have time to dedicate to keeping R1 up to date.

Investments in legacy seldom pay off like futures do. ;-)

Stephen Pruitt said:
I do think that those of us to took Jim's comment about people selling their RED Ones would be sorry confused a whole lot of people. It certainly did me. I was certain that they'd allow us to upgrade again.

I'm quite certain that the new sensor will not be going into the RED One entirely for economic reasons rather than technical ones. I have more confidence in RED's technicians than that. And I know Jim does, as well.

As for prices, well, RED Ones these days look a lot like internet stocks in 2001. It's all downhill from here.

Stephen
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Anyone with an R-1 that they think is obsolete, do a little creative thinking. That is, contact a paparazzi guy or gal, tell them you have this amazing high rez camera they can set up on a place where they think a famous person will turn up, and tell them you can provide them with this 640 GB storage drive. Then suggest to them they can turn this camera on, take a nap, check the footage later to find the frames where the money shot was recorded, crop and edit, sell for big bucks, and they can do this over and over and over again.

Or, you can just use it to shoot tent pole pictures with.
 
Something just occurred to me. How many R-1 owners had cameras eligible for Stage 3? I know of some here whose cameras could have taken the Stage 3 upgrade and would have had a camera with all the included Epic accessories for an additional $10k. Now they are wanting an upgrade to the R-1 that, with a newly designed board and more powerful ASIC, plus sensor, would easily cost $10k, and they'd still have an EOL camera.

Stage 2 people may have an argument, or not, but anyone who could have gone Stage 3 should not be complaining. And even Stage 2 people don't have much of an argument since they (we) got in line earlier for the Epic X and those who kept their Stage 2 cameras (not me) were able to use those cameras for what, a year? while waiting for Epic to be released.

This should just stop.
 
Elsie N said:
Anyone with an R-1 that they think is obsolete, do a little creative thinking.
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I agree 100% Any Indie Production Company can now grab a RED ONE MX and all the accessories at bargain basement prices and make first rate films for the next ten years, or more. The equipment is there, and available, all that's necessary is the talent. Soon there will be as yet unheard of distribution channels unless Hollywood convinces the Government to stifle the Internet, the future is truly Golden.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
"Girl with a Dragon Tattoo" was mostly shot on a MX Red One and just got a Best Cinematography Oscar nomination -- I think independent filmmakers are going to be vey happy getting that picture quality level for many years to come...
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Agreed.

Sometimes it amuses me that "film is dead". RED One is Dead. Alexa is dead. "whatever" is dead.

I have no problem remembering NOT having access to these tools, and I actually think I would fare fearly well with a Varicam still...

I am quite certain that there are others more concerned with the oportunity to create images, than what is released at NAB and IBC each year.

Thanks David! Some sense spoken!
 
We just took delivery of our RED One...why on earth we would do that when we know it is nearing its EOL as a product...because we know its useful life will be a long one. Easy decision for us...because an Epic is way outside our budget, especially when equipped with a Pro I/O, significant amounts of storage and battery, and the other things we would need. And Scarlet doesn't have as many framerate/resolution options, has minimal audio capability, and again would need Pro I/O, and lots of accessories to make it useful. Plus it actually costs more for the package than RED One, and is not as robust physically.

RED One, on the other hand, has multiple storage options (we have both SSD and RED Drives), shoots 4KHD, 120fps at 2K, has 4 ch. of audio, is totally bulletproof and has a whole smorgasbord of dirt-cheap accessories available for it. I don't love the long boot time, but I can easily live with it in our application...teaching and student films. And the menus and interface are kinda clunky, but that is a minor detail.

I'm excited to hear that RC3/RG3 are coming to RED One, and while I wish that Dragon was coming too, in all honesty, I don't really need 6K. RED One is still the perfect package for us...and I'm sure it will be the perfect package for many others for years to come.

I'm sure we will get one or more Epics at some point, and maybe a Scarlet or two...but for now R1 fits our needs...
 
Tom Greenberg said:
We just took delivery of our RED One...why on earth we would do that when we know it is nearing its EOL as a product...because we know its useful life will be a long one. Easy decision for us...because an Epic is way outside our budget, especially when equipped with a Pro I/O, significant amounts of storage and battery, and the other things we would need. And Scarlet doesn't have as many framerate/resolution options, has minimal audio capability, and again would need Pro I/O, and lots of accessories to make it useful. Plus it actually costs more for the package than RED One, and is not as robust physically.

RED One, on the other hand, has multiple storage options (we have both SSD and RED Drives), shoots 4KHD, 120fps at 2K, has 4 ch. of audio, is totally bulletproof and has a whole smorgasbord of dirt-cheap accessories available for it. I don't love the long boot time, but I can easily live with it in our application...teaching and student films. And the menus and interface are kinda clunky, but that is a minor detail.

I'm excited to hear that RC3/RG3 are coming to RED One, and while I wish that Dragon was coming too, in all honesty, I don't really need 6K. RED One is still the perfect package for us...and I'm sure it will be the perfect package for many others for years to come.

I'm sure we will get one or more Epics at some point, and maybe a Scarlet or two...but for now R1 fits our needs...
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Tom, you've made a very smart move. A wonderful use for R1's. Every one of your points is accurate. I remember taking mine to a high school four years ago for a show and tell. So funny, the reaction from most of the teachers was a "that's nice" with a twinge of condescension. My how times have changed. The R1 is the perfect platform to learn upon. Hope many more make their way into schools.
 
George Butterfield said:
I agree 100% Any Indie Production Company can now grab a RED ONE MX and all the accessories at bargain basement prices and make first rate films for the next ten years, or more. The equipment is there, and available, all that's necessary is the talent. Soon there will be as yet unheard of distribution channels unless Hollywood convinces the Government to stifle the Internet, the future is truly Golden.
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Unless piracy is better curtailed, the future is bleak for most of us.
 
For all of those pineing away about the Dragon sensor you should stop to consider that the R1 does not have the "brain power" to get 5K out of the current sensor mounted in it. If Red were to throw us any kind of bone it would be a partial brain upgrade to get 5K out of it's current MX... In doing so a few other nice to haves would also undoubtedly be along for the party, such as a little more power effeciency and quicker boot up times. Not as good as an Epic mind you, but maybe a step or two closer to it.

Will Red ever do this? Hard to tell... Eventually the market will get saturated (these cameras are pretty durable after all), so at some point in the future a $5000~$7000 brain upgrade might make financial sense to them.

Bob
 
Bob Gruen said:
For all of those pineing away about the Dragon sensor you should stop to consider that the R1 does not have the "brain power" to get 5K out of the current sensor mounted in it. If Red were to throw us any kind of bone it would be a partial brain upgrade to get 5K out of it's current MX... In doing so a few other nice to haves would also undoubtedly be along for the party, such as a little more power effeciency and quicker boot up times. Not as good as an Epic mind you, but maybe a step or two closer to it.

Will Red ever do this? Hard to tell... Eventually the market will get saturated (these cameras are pretty durable after all), so at some point in the future a $5000~$7000 brain upgrade might make financial sense to them.

Bob
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Hope so
 
Rob Ruffo said:
Unless piracy is better curtailed, the future is bleak for most of us.
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I disagree. the internet is opening new ways to monetize on content. We shall find a way to stop the black market, or make it work for us, given enough time...
 
Brian Merlen said:
I disagree. the internet is opening new ways to monetize on content. We shall find a way to stop the black market, or make it work for us, given enough time...
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These are a few cents on each dollar legitimate DVD sales used to bring in. The only way to monetize is product placement, and again, a few cents on the dollar - and then the sponsors will often make sure nothing is too edgy. More films were made (pro films, not some guy shooting his brothers reciting their life story, or some crappy drug deal gone bad thing on 5D) before piracy, by orders of magnitude. Films where people got paid a living wage, not $0 for the awful rambling script and $100 to direct.
 
This business has always been Luddite on new tech, especially when it comes to distribution...

"I say to you that the VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston Strangler is to the woman home alone." - Jack Valenti, evidence to Congress, 1982.

They couldn't legislate it away, they couldn't litigate it away. So, kicking and screaming, they learned to live with it and make money from it. We have to do the same.

Mike
 
I'm afraid that you're wrong about that. They did kill the VCR. Do you know of ANY way we can now record HD programming from broadcast or cable, the way the old SD VCR did, and be able to play it back later on media we can travel with?
 
Mark Crabtree said:
I'm afraid that you're wrong about that. They did kill the VCR. Do you know of ANY way we can now record HD programming from broadcast or cable, the way the old SD VCR did, and be able to play it back later on media we can travel with?
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For broadcast I believe there are consumer-level cards and boxes - Hauppauge springs to mind as a name - which have offered that functionality for years. And things like ReplayTV - the box was open enough that 3rd party software was developed to give a lot of additional functionality.

For cable... well that's a pet peeve of mind. Companies like Scientific Atlanta have that sewn up as a monopoly pretty much, with overpriced, limited, mediocre hardware. I'm pretty sure (and I know people in the STB development business) that it won't be long before we see independent Linux-based open-source cable STBs which accept and honor SA access cards (no theft of programming!) but have much more functionality and friendlier user interfaces. There's no law that says you HAVE to rent your box from the cable company, and that's a market ripe for cracking. Who knows, maybe the availability of such boxes, and the extra functionality that will be available once people start to hack on them, will breath some new life into the rather moribund and depressed cable business.

Mike
 
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