The EPIC is awesome but...

[Dominic Jones]

Count me in for in-camera speed effects. Look much better, not only due to shutter angle remaining correct but also as there is no blending of frames or altering of motion cadence to create the effect - each frame is a true, correct image taken at the correct instant in time. For a short ramp (say 1-2 secs) motion cadence isn't *such* an issue (although it is still a noticable advantage to have it correct, imo), but for longer ramps it is a real benefit.

The more control the better for ramping, say I - I love the idea of a wheel that just controls framerate fluidly, with hard limits for upper and lower framerate (although you would also need an accurate readout of current framerate with very little lag to make it of any real use - something you certainly don't get with the R1's ramping mode). Whatever you do don't get rid of ramping!!!

Arri even have a hand-crank encoder that worked on the D-21! That was kind of fun, although I doubt it got a lot of use!!

In all seriousness though, additions to what can be done with ramping in the Epic (over the R1's functionality, as welcome as that is) would be great. The ability to ramp up and then back down would be great, the ability to do that with different speeds for each event and to be able to program (within reason) as many events to as many different buttons as you like would be even better (what about a speed control screen on the iPhone/iPad apps you guys are working on, allowing multiple ramping effects and trigger modes?), and fluid control via the Pro Redmote would be heaven.

When it comes to speed changes, you just can't beat doing it in camera, that's the bottom line...

Cheers all,
Dom.

 

[Cail Young]

The Epic has a shutter pulse input, so in theory (if the firmware is up to the task) you can connect an external trigger device that can drive a frame ramp.

Interesting times ahead

 

[J. Eric Camp]

If you are going to get crazy then I want in camera ramp with options for:

iris compensation on electronic lenses (or maybe even interface to a heden or such motor for cine lenses compensation)

Shutter compensation (for as much as is physically possible)

ISO composition

Any combination there in of the three.

 

[Eric Ulbrich]

If you are going to get crazy then I want in camera ramp with options for:

iris compensation on electronic lenses (or maybe even interface to a heden or such motor for cine lenses compensation)

Shutter compensation (for as much as is physically possible)

ISO composition

Any combination there in of the three.

Now were cooking! +1

 

[Daniel Porto]

If you are going to get crazy then I want in camera ramp with options for:

iris compensation on electronic lenses (or maybe even interface to a heden or such motor for cine lenses compensation)

Agreed! With the Preston FX box iris compensation could be done with the 435 also great camera, too bad its film . However at the end of the day will people be using the iris compensation in a ramping shot the marjority of the time... NO, but the point is to have a camera that can do anything and everything you want it to so when you need to shoot that one shot with a change in depth of field - you only need one camera.

No more 3 Panaflex's and 2 435's for 2ND Unit... its just 5 EPICS

 

[Damien Molineaux]

Agreed! With the Preston FX box iris compensation could be done with the 435 also great camera, too bad its film . However at the end of the day will people be using the iris compensation in a ramping shot the marjority of the time... NO, but the point is to have a camera that can do anything and everything you want it to so when you need to shoot that one shot with a change in depth of field - you only need one camera.

No more 3 Panaflex's and 2 435's for 2ND Unit... its just 5 EPICS

? Why would people not use Iris compensation, that is exactly the thing to do, we want and will use (if it becomes possible). I'll add my +1 to in camera ramping. Of course it can be done in post, and I'm sure with very good results if using the right tools and right settings, but that's only trying to imitate what a camera would do (if capable of). Shutter speed of course is a given, as you speed up shutter should and will change, same if ramping down, as far as ISO compensation, I don't think I would use it, except maybe in that rare occasion where Iris compensation is just not sufficient, but even than, I wold rather set the ISO as it's maximum from the start so as to have the same noise in my shot from start to finish.

My 2 cents, cheers,
Damien

 

[Stephen Williams]

? Why would people not use Iris compensation,

My 2 cents, cheers,
Damien

Simple Depth of field changes & also backlash in Iris can be a major issue when changing direction, I have used shutter angle for the last 25 years without issue.

 

[Keith Walters]

In light of my 15 years or so experience with cinematography rental, can I just confirm that no, you can't: "just shoot it at the maximum frame rate and drop frames in Post".
Well, you can, and you'll get a "sorta" ramping effect, but it will most likely look like shit. It will most emphatically NOT look like something shot on an Arri 435 proper with auto speed/shutter/iris!
Because, yeah, right, people are going to spend hundreds of dollars more and go to all the time and trouble to hire the special 435 kit, AND learn how to use it, when (presumably) they could do it just as well with an ordinary High Speed camera and do it all in post.
I don't know how many panicked early morning phone calls we had from ignorant operators who had that same "brainwave", and then somehow expected us to come out and wave a magic wand over the Post Production suite and make it suddenly all work, to their client's satisfaction.
Test, test TEST!
Perhaps this can best be explained by a little thought experiment:
Imagine an actor doing a "mime" of a speed-ramped shot, you know, the actor actually starting off in Tai-Chi -like low motion and suddenly whipping it up to Kung-Fu speed.
Now imagine you're shooting that at a constant 24 fps with a 180º shutter. Each frame is going to be exposed for 1/48th of a second, regardless of how fast the actor moves so your entire "performance" is going to be photographed naturally.
Now imagine shooting it with a fixed-shutter camera at 96 frames per second. Each frame is now going to be exposed for only 1/144 second. A frame exposed for 1/144th of a second is not going to look the same as one exposed for 1/48th of a second.
So if you shoot the entire thing at 96 frames per second and try to simulate the ramping by deleting/blending frames, your pictures are going to look like the strob-ey slow motion you often see on televised sporting events.
Obviously if you're running the film at four times the original frame rate, you need to compensate for the shorter time each frame is in the gate. The easist way to do this is to open up the iris as the speed increases , but that may introduce depth of field artifacts, and does nothing about the strobing effect.
A far more satisfactory method is to change the shutter angle, but mechanically that's much harder to do while the camera is running, which is one reason Arri developed cameras like the 435.
If the maximum shutter angle available is 180º, and if lighting conditions are such that you get correct exposure at say 144 frames per second with the full 180º, then when you are shooting at 24fps, you will need 30º (one sixth) to get the same exposure, or 15º if you go down to 12 fps and so on.
But notice that in all cases, each frame is exposed for the same length of time: 1/288th of a second.
In practice, the ramp range can be extended by using a mixture of iris and shutter angle control.
As for electronic cameras, it is quite easy to change the "shutter angle" in shot by simply controlling the sensor's charge accumulation time, so "real time" speed ramping should be perfectly feasible.
However 24p video still does not look exactly like 24fps film, so you are never going to get it exactly the same.