The Death of Story

[Scott Crawley]

Well, if we three can accept our differences in style, perhaps we could work well together. ;-)

 

[Elsie N]

Well, if we three can accept our differences in style, perhaps we could work well together. ;-)

Great idea... I'm actually style agnostic. I just like the brevity of +1.:w00t:

 

[alexwhitmer]

If you don't wish to share your storytelling with other creatives then by all means, be a novelist. For a screenwriter, collaboration is part of the job description. A screenwriter who is unable or otherwise uninterested in collaborating is a chronic masturbator with masochistic tendencies who is doomed to fail.

I would think this true with any creative endeavor, from car design, fashion design, architects, landscapers, etc., not to mention all diciplines in film making, from the Director to the actors, sound dudes/dudettes, etc.

'Sharing' story is no different, even for a novelist.

I'm quite certain some (many?) screenplays are wanted only for either a golden nugget buried somewher in the story, or just the overall concept, with limited interest in the actual story that revolves around it. Sometimes this is for the better, just none of mine :smile5:

I believe the industry term is 'to mine' the script. Those with a lack of scruples will do it for free. Those with scruples will at least pay and/or credit the original writer.

More (most?) often a story remains more or less intact with minor and even major changes as it translates into film. One should ask, however, why certain changes are being made. Is it because of budget? Ratings? Target audience? Is the producer watering down otherwise controversial material? What are one's choices if a script with their name on it is rewritten in such a way as to go against their convictions?

It is not always just a matter of creative differences. If being distraught - or at the very least chronically masturbating - over this makes a writer doomed to fail, then so be it. 'Tis a far, far better ...'

I agree, film is a collaborative meduim. That's what makes it so delish. In the end, it all comes down to the editor anyways, and all other arguments are moot.

 

[Elsie N]

I would think this true with any creative endeavor, from car design, fashion design, architects, landscapers, etc., not to mention all diciplines in film making, from the Director to the actors, sound dudes/dudettes, etc.

'Sharing' story is no different, even for a novelist.

I'm quite certain some (many?) screenplays are wanted only for either a golden nugget buried somewher in the story, or just the overall concept, with limited interest in the actual story that revolves around it. Sometimes this is for the better, just none of mine :smile5:

I believe the industry term is 'to mine' the script. Those with a lack of scruples will do it for free. Those with scruples will at least pay and/or credit the original writer.

More (most?) often a story remains more or less intact with minor and even major changes as it translates into film. One should ask, however, why certain changes are being made. Is it because of budget? Ratings? Target audience? Is the producer watering down otherwise controversial material? What are one's choices if a script with their name on it is rewritten in such a way as to go against their convictions?

It is not always just a matter of creative differences. If being distraught - or at the very least chronically masturbating - over this makes a writer doomed to fail, then so be it. 'Tis a far, far better ...'

I agree, film is a collaborative meduim. That's what makes it so delish. In the end, it all comes down to the editor anyways, and all other arguments are moot.

+1.

 

[Scott Crawley]

You may not be a writer but your words still have an effect.

I would would never work with you, or anyone who has such a hostile attitude. Apparently I'm NOT a masochist.

What I think is part of the challenge faced by those who create the ideas that become screenplays is that you get other people who, for whatever reason, feel the need to change the original concept.

The disclaimer was included to illustrate that I do not claim to be intimately familiar with the writer's challenge. The point was indeed to have an impact, however small, with humor. It appears you missed the part about the tone. Here, this might help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFgiUm4lQig&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You seem to be very sensitive, a quality that no doubt aids in your writing.

 

[alexwhitmer]

+1.

Dang, I was going for a +1A. !!

We all know changes are neccesary. That tractor you thought you had for a scene is suddenly unavailable. The documents you needed for that perfect cemetery never came through. An actor walks off the set. Some self-important group or another threatening to shut you down over certain material. Or, on the flipside, an unseen opportunity such as a beautiful old car driving past your set, a cool train yard next to a secured location, or an actress with a gorgeous Romanian accent comes along. Little adjustments need to, and should be made as pre and production get underway. Making up for what you can't get, and taking advantage of good happenstance. This is but one nuance of good film. I would think any writer would recognize that and embrace it as part of the whole.

However, I also think a writer, without the burden of being called a crybaby, can object to changes to orginal material, especially if said changes substantially alter the material's 'message': clearly favoring one religion over another, racisit POVs, or material that one finds repugnant. Or, for that matter, material so poorly rewritten, that it might prove to be an embarassment to one's credits: reducing dialogue to pages of fart jokes, tossing in some T&A and things that go boom just because, and/or dumbing down material because the producer believes an audience doesn't want to think, they only want to be entertained. And so on and so on. You get my point. Yes, I would object to my material, original or per assignment, being nudged into a racist rant - been there, objected to that.

Then there is the script itself. Personally I see them as an art in and of itself, not unlike a well-written novel. The language one uses to describe scenes and action, and the dialogue one chooses for their characters to speak are not just random words. At least they shouldn't be. How one writes a particular line of action should clearly translate into an image in the reader's mind. No long-winded adjective rants to get a character introduced, no endless looping of adverbs to get a fricken car down an alley. When you want the action to move quickly, you write in just such a manner, and when you want to slow down and get sensual, you write in just such a manner - without having to say 'Okay, here we get sensual'. The writing should 'feel' sensual.

Then along comes Rewrite Bob with a very different idea of what language is or isn't, and armed with a poor vocabulary, so when it's all said and done, this document lacks clarity and fluidity, and becomes pure annoyance to read. On set, this can cost $ (WTF = lost time). That and it pisses me off. Folks with a C average or below in English (or in whatever language the screenplay is written) shouldn't be hacking up novels or scripts in the interest of viable economics. It's hardly a secret many (most?) films die in production or soon after release due to egregious errors in trying to guess this week's viable economics. Whenever I hear that term tossed around with an aire of importance, I know the film is doomed.

As a writer I fully expect to be edited (user-friendly term). I will, however, whine about it when things move in a direction I hardly recognize, or I find disconcerting. I seriously doubt I am alone. My favorite comeback? Gee, Alex, maybe you need a thicker skin.



Did you know I was recently 'accused' of English being my second language due to word choice? And did you know that I was 'fired' as the writer and stripped of 2,000 hours/2 years of co-writing credit? LMAO. Even if English were my second language - as it could very well be - me thinks something else was afoot here.

And this was a faith-based project. Go figure. With all due respect, he can go F himself.

I digress.

 

[Elsie N]

Did I strike a nerve perhaps?

Your response is exactly the attitude I don't want to have anywhere near the work I do. It reflects in the final product, and it sucks to work with that negativity around on a daily basis. I wouldn't subject anyone to it and that person wouldn't last very long. I have the luxury of choosing.

Am I sensitive? Yes, in the way a healthy adult is sensitive.

Perhaps you missed my point in that I won't work with those who are NOT sensitive people, especially those who express hostility, rather than attempt to understand, others. The way I see it, the problem that Alex is facing is the lack of control over her own ideas by others who seem to lack creative sensitivity.

It's a humanistic and yet practical issue. Insensitivity totally kills the creative process.

And I thought it was clear by my writing style, or lack of style, that I'm not a writer.

Frank, I'm just an observer here, but would I be correct in my guess that you do not write light-hearted comedy?

 

[Scott Crawley]

Did I strike a nerve perhaps?

Not at all. If i meant these things seriously I might take some personal measure of your observations, but I am not. I simlpy thought some roughshod humor might lighten the mood brought on by a very sad and all too common dilemma.

I'm sorry to disappoint you valiant knight, but Alex did not require rescue from the likes of me, so your sword is blunted.

While I'm at my next sensitivity class I will try and find some literature on the humor workshop for you. ;-)

 

[Elsie N]

BUT did you read the part where I said I'm NOT a writer? After all, reading IS important Elsie! :w00t:

mea culpa... I read once for content but did not read a second time for comprehension.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

I agree there has been a decline of Story throughout the ages, and certainly in recent years. I feel your pain. I agree with you Julio its refreshing to step away from all the technical overload but I believe there is still hope...some times its just finding the right people to collaborate with. What kind of social networks are available for writers to reach out to directors and vice versa? I am always looking for scripts. Best of luck.

That makes no sense - so story was superb in ancient Greece, and now is horrible. In Victorian times, it was merely bad?

Ancient Greece had some pretty bad plays - but we see only the very best that survived the ages. The fabled 1970s produced mostly utter garbage, and also some classics. No one sees the bad 1970s films because many of them are no longer even available or are now completely obscure.

It's hard to write a good script/story - same now as before, although Word and computers do help a bit for re-writing.

As per the OP who you chose to work with and convincing them about the merits of your point of view is part of the game. Get those two things wrong and your story with get F-ed. So? That's life.

 

[rod bradley]

Hi Alex, a bit late on seeing this thread, but I think it's good to vent. Good for the health and shows you give a damn.

As a writer myself, and a guy who'se actually been a ghostwriter for some name brand writers (when I was younger & just as desperate to pay the rent as I still am), I would say this is par for the course.

Completely normal.

The writer is the goose that laid the golden egg -- who is instantly beheaded as soon as he signs the contract. (And it happens even to big big writers.)

So yeah, if you write for movies -- and not for a movie you're going to make -- don't take it personally. The only position of the screenwriter in Hollywood is that of a whore. The best you can expect is to actually get paid and not have to humiliate yourself too much or get beat up too badly. The artist is always at the doorsteps of the rich. The writer is paid lipservice in Hollywood and sometimes paid well and overpaid. The number of scripts that started off good and ended up committee bad and nowhere are legion. Welcome to the club.

But keep venting.

I hope the check was good.