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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Coming "Highspeed Revolution"?

Hi Tom,

I have shot regularly upto 500 FPS, a couple of times 2000 FPS, I find you need to double frame rate to get a big difference.

Lighting becomes an issue & the quality of image degrades as you go faster both on film & video.

The Photosonics 4B first built over 60 years ago managed 3250 FPS (35mm) so frame rates 1000+ is nothing new at all.

Stephen

Tom L said:
Have you shot much highspeed stuff, Stephen? 600fps +?

A friend was telling me yesterday, that back in his ski film days, he shot a lot of highspeed stuff up to like 200fps, but that only about 10% of his shots were in the neighborhood of 600fps. It was just too slow.

But then again, once you're talking about 1000fps+, it's kind of a new ballgame. You are going after entirely different types of sequences. New types of shots open up.

I think getting that Casio with 600fps, 1200fps, etc, would be a good way to dream up and test shots without risking the test on a Phantom.
Click to expand...
 
Steve Thomson said:
Here's my little foray into Super Slo-mo with the phantom.
Good fun. - The whole 'post trigger' option was essential.
http://www.brandspank.com/bs2/featured-work/Sky-Sport.html-715,3
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Steve, this is world-class stuff. Awesome. I really love the lead-in ramps, because they keep the viewer on their toes.

Stephen Williams said:
Hi Tom,

I have shot regularly upto 500 FPS, a couple of times 2000 FPS, I find you need to double frame rate to get a big difference.

Lighting becomes an issue & the quality of image degrades as you go faster both on film & video.

The Photosonics 4B first built over 60 years ago managed 3250 FPS (35mm) so frame rates 1000+ is nothing new at all.

Stephen
Click to expand...

I didn't mean that 1000fps is a "whole new ballgame" because digital is suddenly able to do it, I was talking about my DP friend who shot those Warren Miller films mainly around 200fps, and only rarely did 600fps. My point was, that once you get up into the 1000fps realm, the "game changes" and you begin to seek out and shoot totally different types of subjects, regardless of whether it's film or digital 1000fps.

However, as many are pointing out, the main benefit of digital is this pre-record function. It can allow a DP to capture certain types of shots that simply cannot be done on film unless you had a 1 billion dollar budget and could just roll 35mm film constantly for hours, hoping to catch some rare event. I think you would agree on that?

haha, Ace, that was awesome with the BBQ guy....
 
Tom L said:
It can allow a DP to capture certain types of shots that simply cannot be done on film unless you had a 1 billion dollar budget and could just roll 35mm film constantly for hours, hoping to catch some rare event. I think you would agree on that?
.
Click to expand...

No Chance to run a 35mm film camera constantly for hours. At 360 FPS you get just over 30 seconds of running time at speed with 1000' film, you have to know what you are doing!
 
I thought about this a while ago, I invented a crazy platter loader magazine with a tube that delivered the film to the camera. It would never have worked.
 
Dylan Macleod said:
Too funny. I shot a similar video this past summer with the Phantom (and RED.

Seems throwing paint is not such an original idea!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsjaIb2VhTM&feature=fvst

Doesn't Phantom make a "less expensive" high frame rate cameras - like the Miro?
Click to expand...

Hi Dylan,

"This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions. "

Is there anywhere else I can get to see it?

Thanks,
Antony

EDIT: Non-Americans can see it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOujvLLpWnE
 
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Peter Hoare said:
First off, for those speeds, it has to be tethered to a laptop. You shoot the shot to volatile memory inside the camera then trans fur it to the laptop down an ethernet cable.

You can shoot 450fps direct to the cinemag, which is an option.
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I am a certified PhantomHD Tech and specialize in high-speed cameras like Weisscam and Photron. The Phantom(s) are by far the best of all these systems but at a price point.

Peter you are incorrect. You can shoot all speeds completely "untethered". You can set parameters in the laptop then shoot. Think Planet Earth or any Nat Geo shoot you think the DP got the Laptop out in the middle of the jungle? Nope. 2048x1080 @ 1000fps is 4.4 seconds because the camera uses a 16GB looped buffer. We tech's prefer to shoot tethered because we can work faster when shooting and playing back.

What makes the System expensive is the stability and fast on-set cinemag workflow. Which is Shoot, Playback, Trim, Save then Shoot.

BTW show me a camera that shoots 14bit uncompressed RAW images and not at 24 or 30 but 1000fps or 1500fps for that matter.

512GB is 50minutes, 256 is 25, 128 is 13 minutes of footage.

please know the facts before posting:)
 
Dane Brehm said:
512GB is 50minutes, 256 is 25, 128 is 13 minutes of footage.
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Dane, not sure how you're defining your numbers.

Just to clarify, I like to list the runtimes on CineMags by a given playback as it can be quite unclear to people since the camera can shoot at a variety of framerates. If one were to shoot at 1920x1080 (technically 2048x1080 as the full width is always captured), 14-bit depth and to then play back that material at 24fps, then it would last 132 minutes. At that resolution & bit depth the fastest the Phantom HD Gold can capture is 1052fps, but that is to the internal RAM buffer, which can then be dumped to the CineMag in seconds. Recording directly to the CineMag, the top speed (again at this given res. & bit) is 450fps, which means that a 512G CineMag can record continuously for over seven minutes before filling up completely.

And not to pick on Dane at all, but just as information, Abel Cine Tech does not certify any of the Phantom Techs that take our course. All we can attest to is that they attended and appeared to pay attention and understand. Certification is a legal term and carries certain responsibilities.
 
Mitch Gross said:
If you want to compare the Weisscam HS-2 to a Phantom model, perhaps the v640 would be more appropriate.
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Hy Mitch, but what i know is that the Weisscam HS-2 is available, the Phanton not, btw in 6 month or later.
I dont know why, i think the Phantom cameras have little bit problems or somthing else ?????
Please tell me !

Do you have ever tested the Weisscam HS-2 to the Phantom?

something else:
I know that PCO has a new camera in high speed market (Dimax). Have somebody tested this one?
Photron has a new one too (SA-2), but the image quality of this one i have seen is not conclusive.
 
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The Phantom v640 is indeed shipping in limited quantities, which I believe is also the case for the Weisscam HS-2. Any comparison tests that have been done between the two would be for private use and parties such as myself would be under NDA.
 
Mitch Gross said:
The Phantom v640 is indeed shipping in limited quantities, which I believe is also the case for the Weisscam HS-2. Any comparison tests that have been done between the two would be for private use and parties such as myself would be under NDA.
Click to expand...

Why are these tests so "secret" ?

If the test says that Phantom are better, than i would buy a Phantom, but when i read this.....
I think, when these test are so top secret, Phantom has to keep something secret, or they have a big problem. BUMMER !!!
The Developer of Weisscam didn't shy any comparison, that what i know.

Why does Phantom ship it so limited? I would be very interested to test, but at the moment no chance, no V640 available!

And to the Phantom HD, it would no chance for it, the image quality is incredible looking good for the Weisscam.
(more contrasty, incredible sharpness, extremly high dynamic range, top color trueness... best ever what i have seen :eek6: )

Is there somebody who know what camertype is inside the Weisscam HS-2?
 
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