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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

the best

J

jonathan homer vargas

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is better 422 or 444 color
is better 1080 or 4k
is better mpg-2 than raw video

red scarlet package 14025 + 128 REDMAG 1.8-in SSD Module = 15825
c300 =20,000

Jonathan Yi the red scarlet is the best cam no more lie

sorry my english
 
jonathan homer vargas said:
is better 422 or 444 color
is better 1080 or 4k
is better mpg-2 than raw video

red scarlet package 14025 + 128 REDMAG 1.8-in SSD Module = 15825
c300 =20,000

Jonathan Yi the red scarlet is the best cam no more lie

sorry my english
Click to expand...


If you're correct, you could also say

is better 2D Scarlet X or 3D EPIC rig cams
is better 35mm cams or 65 mm or IMAX cameras
is better 4k or 8k RED DRAGON

I could also use an IMAX (fridge sized) cam for doing webcam chat on Skype...

There's no "better camera" than any other, just different cameras for different uses. That's the professionnal way.
 
i would say that RED is Android, CANON is iPhone...

Canon works out of the box. everything works. no beta, no issues no waiting, but it has a few things that seem lackluster or just plain "adequate", but you can concentrate on your film.
Red is BETA, it has some awesome specs but stuff WILL work over time, you need to be a technician, you need to fiddle around, read and ask, and know your shit... less time to concentrate on your film.

if you like simplicity and "working as advertised" the iPhone is your friend.
if you like custom ROM's, fiddling with all your settings and configuring EXACTLY to your needs Android is your best bet.

i happen to be an Android user... but i know not everyone is, and not everyone wants to fiddle.
 
First off...I love Canon...and I was really hoping they pulled a rabbit out of their hat on Nov. 3rd....BUT crippling a $20,000 camera with 8 bit processing was a HUGE flaw. Had their camera been $8,000 and 8bit or $12,000 and 10bit I would have considered their options a lot closer, but I already own an AF100...I don't need another $20,000 AF100. IMHO

However, I agree with Daniel. We will not be selling our HMC150, AF100, T2i or GoPro...why? Because Scarlet is not the perfect tool for every project.
 
Daniel Kunz said:
i would say that RED is Android, CANON is iPhone...

Canon works out of the box. everything works. no beta, no issues no waiting, but it has a few things that seem lackluster or just plain "adequate", but you can concentrate on your film.
Red is BETA, it has some awesome specs but stuff WILL work over time, you need to be a technician, you need to fiddle around, read and ask, and know your shit... less time to concentrate on your film.

if you like simplicity and "working as advertised" the iPhone is your friend.
if you like custom ROM's, fiddling with all your settings and configuring EXACTLY to your needs Android is your best bet.

i happen to be an Android user... but i know not everyone is, and not everyone wants to fiddle.
Click to expand...

Yes, Android is an OS, IOS is software for an appliance. One lets you have complete control with the power of a computer with full filesystem access and autonomy (4k RAW, best quality available is onboard 6:1 wavelet), and the other keeps you in a small well-designed playpen in which you can only get the most, but still reduced, functionality with extra work (jailbreak / CanonLog). The best image available from the C300 only works with external devices, onboard is 16:1 mpeg2, 64:1 mpeg2 compared to sensor 4kHD.
 
Right tool for the job, in some ways you could say the Phantom is the best camera around...heck with all those frame rates? seriously would love one just to mess around but they aren't cheap.

GoPros and the like, yeah they shoot 1080p but I mean cmon...you can't slap a Scarlet in the same places as a GoPro without the weight being a factor...

Scarlet and EPIC for cinema and whatever future home deliverable. 1080p for broadcast and web. Pretty simple really...
 
Imran Farouk said:
Scarlet and EPIC for cinema and whatever future home deliverable. 1080p for broadcast and web. Pretty simple really...
Click to expand...

That's one epic statement. true to the core. Though there seem to be alot of guy's doing 99% web stuff and still wanting the Scarlet... (looking at self...)
 
Not sure it's really that simple. Broadcast and web content still benefit from oversampling and 13.5stops of DR, and content that is being graded or adjusted or reframed or has VFX all benefits from 16bit 4k RAW...
 
jonathan homer vargas said:
is better 422 or 444 color

Jonathan Yi the red scarlet is the best cam no more lie

sorry my english
Click to expand...

Hi Jonathon. I wish I could speak a second language. I still intend to learn spanish before i die.

It was a great review - in fact it was the most enjoyable review I have ever watched.
But I believe Mr Yi specifically said in his opininon it was "the best" cam for documentaries. It certainly looks great for low light. Mind you, there's probably more than a couple of doco makers who prefer the idea of capturing footage in stunning 4K too.

However for feature film making with an intended or hoped theatrical release, I believe it's extremely hard to argue that Scarlet is not clearly the "best" cam. A micro budget, exterior night shoot affair might be the most likely exception.

There are a great many pro Scarlet points, but as has been said, the important thing is what are the key points for you. But it's hard to decide that unless your clear of what they are. For me the key areas where Scarlet critically out performs the c300 and you could say in the context you have used, is clearly the "best" camera are...

* Creativity/flexibility in post and VFX work.
* Slow motion.
* Upgrade pathway & resale value
* Future proof footage
* RAW
* HDR
* Still capture

There are many other points to.
The only points where I see Scarlet being out performed so far by the C300, is low light, cheaper accessories -- definitely cheaper to get longer battery life and recording times for the C300. There's also inbuilt ND filters. And of course, ease of use in some NLE programs is a big concern for people too. All fair and valid points, and may prove critical in the needs for a particular persons preferences or work needs.

However, in directly comparing the C300 and Scarlet for my needs and plans. The two cameras are leagues apart. To answer your other points.

Yes, 444 is better than 422.
Yes 4K is better quality than 1080
Yes RAW is better than mpg-2.

Hope this is of some help Jonathan.

Best WIshes mate

Lliam
 
Noah,

I completely agree. I love the look of Red cameras even when delivery is 720p on Vimeo. The times that I would not use the Scarlet and would opt for the AF100/HMC150 have nothing to do with final format and more to do with:
- Restrictive timeline or environment (high stress eng style situations)
- Budget (client doesn't care about red and doesn't want to pay more for it)
- Danger to Equipment (dusty nasty environments)
- Required long run time (currently limited by media)
- Remote Destination (currently limited by batteries)
 
Yeah I'm having trouble with the idea of selling my FS100 in favor of my Scarlet for those reasons. For some jobs its amazing to have a camera that runs all day on one battery and one card, can do 60fps without cropping, and has clean iso20,000... and I can charge my clients half as much for... I can justify keeping my $600 GH2 as a b-camera/vacation camera, but a $5k FS100 that will get less use when I get my Scarlet is tough to justify...
 
Why the preaching to the crowd all the time? And misinformation. C300 will be 14k in the USA. Both decent cameras suitable for different jobs but both useless cameras in the hands of fanboys who pay attention to specs and not composition, pacing, exposure etc. You want to show us how X camera is the best then post some f**king footage. Talk in images not words. Another pointless thread.

And BTW where are the Scarlet films? There are C300 films out there that highlight the strengths of the camera and to a certain extent dispel some of the weaknesses (8 bit) but above all use the camera in a real world scenario. Of course the response will be 4k RAW blah, blah, blah, well someone should show how good this in a real world, real job scenario.
 
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Did you have a bad day, Ash? Could you cite a source for the C300 price you listed? I've heard plenty of rumors, but if you have a credible source that would certainly be interesting news for this comparison.

Neither of these cameras are widely available to anyone who wants to use them. If you don't feel it is productive to talk about cameras that are not yet available based simply on information and users reports available to the public, you might have an easier time dealing with discussions in another part of Reduser besides the "Scarlet" forum. RED didn't do a $1M launch or fund expensive short films shot on camera prototypes like Canon did, but we do have Epic to look at for image and functionality comparisons.
 
Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
Not sure it's really that simple. Broadcast and web content still benefit from oversampling and 13.5stops of DR, and content that is being graded or adjusted or reframed or has VFX all benefits from 16bit 4k RAW...
Click to expand...

Agreed, it would benefit. Though aren't these 'it would be awesome to have' kind of features? If the backend isn't supported your kind of stuck arent you? Not enough storage, not enough power. Most that can afford the upgrading of their backend can afford the camera (to an extent obviously). You wouldn't buy the camera only to cripple it on the backend.

There are things though that trascende time and personally the main thing that does is Films, the other is music. Films require re-mastering every time our viewing technology gets cheaper. You can't remaster 1080p, its just impossible. How do you re-master 1080p to 4K? Advertising, corporate and the like are all 'its nice to have 4K but its cheaper to run with 1080p' kind of scenarios. If you can charge for 4K the same as 1080p and give the same delivery deadline and EVERYONE did that, then 1080p would possibly be more than likely very close to death. That isn't happening though is it? I mean correct me if I'm wrong of course but I don't think it is. Certain companies can do it but not all because of the potential strain it would put having EVERY client doing 4K. It's a nice to have for the majority, its not a must though.

The right tool for the job is all that I think anyone here would say. C300 makes total sense but its price point even at 12K or 16K is still a bit much I think, when 4K (lets not kid ourselves on the next bit) can be had for a full $25K or around that (yes.I said that,I'm talking about a total working package for a majority of scenarios. 4x128GBs/64GBs etc.). However, tons of past cameras are still relevant, the 5D is a great learning tool for many and when those that own one, earn enough for a Scarlet and its backend there is, as you point out, a world of features that were nice to have that are suddenly attainable and their experience makes those images even better then they were before.

There is however, no excuse for Hollywood to be filming ANYTHING in 1080p. Plain and simple. Especially VFX shots. Good luck to them trying to up-rez it when 4K consumer TVs and projectors hit.



Ash, The Scarlet is EXACTLY the same sensor as the EPIC. That means that the Muppets and so on that you will see soon, was shot on the EPIC, which will present with similar if not exact imagery as THE SCARLET. 4K over 5K sure. The same dynamic range though right? Minus HDRX. If all things equal, if EPIC was a 4K 24fps camera with no HDRX. You would call it Scarlet. That's what Scarlet is. Not meaning to cause any offense but lets be real. C300 has had some awesome stuff shot on it for their presentation and when its released more awesome stuff will be shot on it BUT saying 'where are the Scarlet films' is like saying 'Where are the RED films?'. It's all the same. The specs are pretty damn similar to the R1. So if you won't compare it to the EPIC, compare it to the R1 and take a look at the images from there.
 
Ash Worth said:
Why the preaching to the crowd all the time? And misinformation. C300 will be 14k in the USA. Both decent cameras suitable for different jobs but both useless cameras in the hands of fanboys who pay attention to specs and not composition, pacing, exposure etc. You want to show us how X camera is the best then post some f**king footage. Talk in images not words. Another pointless thread.

And BTW where are the Scarlet films? There are C300 films out there that highlight the strengths of the camera and to a certain extent dispel some of the weaknesses (8 bit) but above all use the camera in a real world scenario. Of course the response will be 4k RAW blah, blah, blah, well someone should show how good this in a real world, real job scenario.
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQi58sPmYNw http://vimeo.com/32843511
 
sorry, but that is not actual footage from the actual scarlet... that footage was made by the 3K scarlet that was able to shoot 120fps... check your facts.
 
Imran, you are right if the EPIC footage was limited to the specs of the Scarlet 4k at 24fps but if a project used EPIC they probably used 5k 24 fps not 4k and then exclude any frame rates that the Scarlet can't do. It's just not the same. RED was the one who hyped this 'competition' so forgive me if I expected to see a Scarlet film that played to it's strengths not the EPICS. I think it's a cop out to say just look at EPIC films because the EPIC can do so much more and may also be a little misleading.

They are just not the same. In order to shoot slow motion you crop the sensor, that would look different etc etc.
 
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