The Bare Bones Questions

[FreakIndeed]

I'll be director of photography for a feature next May and would really like to use the Red. I'm hoping to make my deposit soon as I would really need the camera a few months (February) before filming starts to acclimate myself (I've only ever shot in HD).

My current budget is LOW. In other words I need to put together a bare bones system that will get me filming something and then add on as I can up until shooting time for the feature.

I'm looking for some advice. Where can I skimp and what do I really NEED to have.

Here are my thoughts, please jump in and tell me if I'm off base.

I'm thinking I can save money by going with the Nikon mount and purchasing nice Nikkor lenses. This is a BIG money saver to start off. I know the Nikon lenses won't match up to the high end stuff but this is still something I think I can deal with for a couple months. Question though, when you purchase the Nikon mount do you still get to keep the PL mount and can you swap the mounts "at home"? I would definitely be looking to at least rent higher end PL mount glass by the time I film the feature. Do quality Nikon lenes look good when used on the Red?

Next, I'm thinking to initially just go with the 5.6 inch LCD. Is there any reason I have to have the EVF?

Next would be the base production pack. On a low initial budget should I go with the base production pack? Is it all needed or can I buy parts at a slower pace?

Next is the pros and cons of going with the Red Drive or just swapping CF cards. I'd like some advice on that. How many minutes of 16X9 4K footage does a 16GB CF card hold? The Red does shoot 16X9 now, right?

Obviously I'd have to get the battery and charger and I can't imagine not having two batteries so I don't think I'll skimp there.

Thanks for any advice! I look forward to joining the ranks of Red Users.

 

[Thomas Koch]

With Nikon mount you are looking at a bare bones set up of $24,000-28,000 grand.

 

[MiguelOrtega]

$24k as bare as it can get

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

My current budget is LOW. In other words I need to put together a bare bones system that will get me filming something and then add on as I can up until shooting time for the feature.

First suggestion... Locate a RED owner near you, see if you can get a demo session with the camera or come be an assistant for a day to get some hands-on time with the camera. You can learn volumes just by spending a few hours with the camera and various accessories. Even if you put in your reservation now, its going to be a few months before you get your camera.

Better have a backup plan for obtaining a RED kit for your feature if yours can't ship in time. I would think you'll be OK, but no one knows for sure just where the current backlog stands. I think January is still the target for filling all the reservations.

I'm thinking I can save money by going with the Nikon mount and purchasing nice Nikkor lenses. This is a BIG money saver to start off. I know the Nikon lenses won't match up to the high end stuff but this is still something I think I can deal with for a couple months.

Yes, using still lenses can be a big money-saver. Cine lenses are expensive by comparison, even the upcoming lenses from RED and others like Optica Elite, Angenieux, etc.. that will sell at competitive prices in contrast to current offerings from Arri/Zeiss, Cooke, etc.. The current demand for used lenses is just ludicrous.

When you buy the RED One and the Nikon mount, you still get the PL mount. You can have the camera shipped with either one installed. You can change them "at home". Just do it some place clean and safe. The tricky part is getting the back focus adjusted just right -- a properly adjusted lens and a starburst chart are essential tools.

For still lenses, if you want a nice set that have been modified to have cine-style gear rings on them and all front diameters mounted with rings for consistent diameter, take a look at sets from RP Lens (rplens.com). They do sets of Zeiss ZF in Nikon mount that look really nice and a few redusers have gone that route and seem very pleased. They also offer kits with a lot of Nikkor lenses. If you want to select your own Nikkors, I recommend the 17-35mm zoom, it's a beauty of a lens. It has some shortcomings that will make it a pain for some cinema applications -- no hard stops on the focus ring and the focus ring can be sloppy and the throw (amount of rotation for the focus range) is very short. Only 1/4 turn of the barrel to go end to end on the focus range. But its size and optical quality are just excellent. Look in the footage section, lots of good stuff shot with this lens. The 85mm F1.4 Nikkor prime is a must-have too, IMO.

Another option, if the warranty issue is finally resolved and if the mounts start to ship in volume, is the Birger mount and Canon lenses. It will allow mechanical control of the Canon lenses.

Next, I'm thinking to initially just go with the 5.6 inch LCD. Is there any reason I have to have the EVF?

This is personal preference in some ways. But as someone who shoots outdoors a lot and often in blinding sun, I find the EVF to be essential. However, I love the LCD. It's so small and light and still performs very well in sunlight.

Next would be the base production pack. On a low initial budget should I go with the base production pack? Is it all needed or can I buy parts at a slower pace?

This is where we get into discussing what YOU NEED. Only you can answer this. The base production pack is a great deal for all that is included. But it may not be stuff you need. I personally didn't go with the base production pack because I use the Arri baseplates, so no need for the RED bottom plate and shoulder dovetail, didn't want more steel rods, Don't like the cradle as I use other drive mounting solutions, etc..

Next is the pros and cons of going with the Red Drive or just swapping CF cards. I'd like some advice on that. How many minutes of 16X9 4K footage does a 16GB CF card hold? The Red does shoot 16X9 now, right?

Yes, it shoots 16:9 in 4K. You must use the drive to shoot the higher quality REDCODE 36. When shooting to CF cards, you can only do 4K 16:9 at REDCODE 28. It will do 4K 2:1 in REDCODE 36 to cards though. This should change with the 16GB CF cards as they are quite a bit faster than RED's 8GB cards.

I think you will find that having both drives and CF media available will be to your advantage. I personally couldn't get by with either and I find myself shooting to the drive more often, even when doing narrative work.

Obviously I'd have to get the battery and charger and I can't imagine not having two batteries so I don't think I'll skimp there.

If you intend to stick with the RED batteries / chargers, I strongly recommend getting TWO POWER PACKS! That will get you two chargers and 4 batteries total. With this configuration, you can charge two batteries at a time. I can make it through a very full shooting day of over 10 hours with two chargers and 6 batteries. You should also consider the AC adapter as well. And to reiterate what I just said, you can only charge one battery at a time on a charger. They hold two batteries, but they are sequential chargers, lots of people don't realize this until after they have bought them.

 

[tj williams]

kmuse selling a canon fd mount look at the 2.8 still lenses in FD they are way cheaper than Nikon. We have one of the mounts and a nice set of Canon FD Primes. Great images no complaints and even better savings than Nikon. PS good to put on gears buy on Ebay fm India and use small gear on follow focus to spread focus on disk.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Keep in mind that the Canon mount from Kevin (khmuse) voids the camera warranty. So does the IMS mount from P+S Technic. I know that RED and Birger Engineering are working to solve warranty issues with the Birger mount and that may be cleared up now that units are shipping or are close to shipping. The RED Nikon mount obviously is fine, as is Douglas Underdahl's new Nikon mount that adds aperture control for electronic aperture lenses via a small knob.

 

[FreakIndeed]

Thanks for the detailed response Jeff. I really like the looks of the RP lens set. Very economical.

Couple more questions. I currently have a bogen 3046 tripod with a 3063 head. It has a plate with the standard screw in connection found on most HD cams and still cameras. Will this work with the Red or will I need to be looking for an all new mounting solution?

Second, I'm not seeing the AC Adapter at the store... where do you find that?

TJ, are you talking about this follow focus?

http://cgi.ebay.com/CINE-Follow-Foc...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

If so, it says it mounts on 15mm rods... does it work on the Red 19mm rods?

Thanks guys!

 

[FreakIndeed]

Also, if anyone knows anyone shooting with a Red in the Columbus, Ohio area I'd be very interested in volunteering to help out just for the experience.