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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The 4K "Apple Problem"

Jake Bastian said:
That's a bit of a leap... You and Rob are both only partially right.
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I know that ARM processors existed before Apple starting using them, but they no less designed their own variant of it. Still, my only point was that Rob has completely misunderstood how Apple and similar companies operate if he think they just go around shopping hardware and rebranding it. And no, I'm not partially right, I'm 100% correct in that regard.

+ add smiley

:)

= try to be humble
 
With Panasonic introducing a 4K tablet, this means resolution is not a problem in display manufacture. The main problem is in having the appropriate content for 4K. I think the main problem will be those effect heavy films- they are mastered in 2K because of the prohibitive price of 4K special effects- some of them undoable back in the days the films where done. 1080P was in many films already very unforgiving for effects heavy films: Looking at my Terminator 2 Judgement day Blu Ray you can clearly see the compositing job on the T1000 and the green screen stuff. Something like the Phantom Menace, which looks already terrible in Blu-ray, will look a lot worse in 4K, unless they redo all the effects and compositing/green screen...(EDIT and it was shot in 1080p!) Ironically enough, the very old film stuff will look better in 4K with not much effort, I believe...

I think its in everyone's interest- Hollywood, the industry, content distributors and creators, etc- to go 4K NOW. But 4K still needs its showcase piece in Cinemas: I would say 4K needs a Beautiful, cinematic marvel to grab headlines. The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo was close, but still not a benchmark. Cinema is the place to WOW the consumer. The next generation of cinema and home entertainment needs urgently masterpieces shot with the Red Dragon and displayed at 4K with the Red Ray projector. EDIT- I need to be as impressed as I was in the big screen as I was when viewing those timelapses demo on the LG 4K display. This hasn't happened yet.
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
In the trash-bin?
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I gotta hand it to you guys; if anyone is 'thread-crapping' and ruining an otherwise informative thread with lots of good discussion back and forth, it's you two prattling on like this. Here's an idea... Move along and let the big boys chat. Thanks.
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
...Rob has completely misunderstood how Apple and similar companies operate if he think they just go around shopping hardware and rebranding it.
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Where did I ever say this? My point, which I've already made, is Apple sources its panels. Fact hm?

I see your note about being humble. I'll keep it in mind when you say to me:
"I find arrogance and ignorance extremely frustrating in combination..." -and- [this thread should be] "In the trash-bin?"

Enlightened.
 
Rob Anderson said:
Where did I ever say this? My point, which I've already made, is Apple sources its panels. Fact hm?
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Since moving to their "retina" and IGZO-type displays, they are doing most, if not all the design work on the panels. They still source manufacturers to build them, only way they could ever keep up with the demand is to have multiple suppliers hammering away on production.

As for the whole ARM CPU thing. ARM is a platform in a similar way to x86. Saying Apple did not design their own CPU here, in the case of the A5 and A6 chips is like saying AMD doesn't design their own processors and they just copy Intel. Prior to the A5, much of the design work was farmed out to others, including Samsung and TSMC.

It's funny, people don't tend to give a lot of the successful companies credit for actually doing their own R&D, design, etc.. Apple, RED, etc.. are often labeled incorrectly as just using what others make for them. There's a ton of unique and in-house designed tech in Apple devices. The same can be said for Samsung's devices as well. They may have had a nasty bout with Apple over aesthetics and interface copying, but under the hood the devices were pretty darn unique. And they're still that way. Even though they make a lot of products for others -- including manufacture of chips and displays for Apple, they usually stick to their own designs for their own products and don't usually share them with others.


And yeah, this thread has no business being in this area.

Now in Off Topic.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Since moving to their "retina" and IGZO-type displays, they are doing most, if not all the design work on the panels. They still source manufacturers to build them, only way they could ever keep up with the demand is to have multiple suppliers hammering away on production...
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Apple did not design or invent the Retina panels. LG did. LG designed and fabricates them (sometimes subs manufacturing out) and then Apple buys the panels from LG. Credit where due... It's an LG product with an Apple name on it. This isn't a component that Apple designed and found a manufacturer to build. It's a component LG designed and sold, which Apple now sources.

http://www.dailytech.com/LG+Looks+to+Leave+Apple+Behind+With+5Inch+Retina+Display/article24788.htm

While it's true that companies like Apple and RED often do not get enough due for how much of a hand they have in 'inventing' their product, we're talking about the panels here. And that's an LG product.

Because the Retina displays are an LG product, this isn't Apple "pushing towards 4K". This is LG doing it, along with a number of other panel makers, and Apple is just one of many carts latched onto those horses. And I question how far back they're hitching their cart.
 
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Rob Anderson said:
Apple did not design or invent the Retina panels. LG did. LG designed and fabricates them (sometimes subs manufacturing out) and then Apple buys the panels from LG. Credit where due... It's an LG product with an Apple name on it.
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No, LG's manufacturing branch manufacture panels for Apple, amongst others. Apple does not have their own manufacturing plants, they outsource manufacturing, it's not a part of their business to do manufacturing.

Rob Anderson said:
This isn't a component that Apple designed and found a manufacturer to build. It's a component LG designed and sold, which Apple now sources.
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No. Apple buys millions of displays for their products, they define what gets made, based on their needs. Before Apple's Retina jump, there had not been any significant increase in screen resolution, actually the opposite, many laptops and monitors got lower DPI's the last years to save costs.

Retina displays are neither a new invention, it's just a costlier display that is harder to produce. And Apple happens to be the consumer electronic product company that found it important to increase the screen resolution, when others didn't.

Rob Anderson said:
Because the Retina displays are an LG product, this isn't Apple "pushing towards 4K". This is LG doing it, along with a number of other panel makers, and Apple is just one of many carts latched onto those horses. And I question how far back they're hitching their cart.
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Again, you don't seem to understand this. It's not the consumer branch of LG that produce displays for Apple, neither are this LG branch pushing for higher resolution. Apple pushed for it and LG amongst other manufacturers produce these displays for Apple. Maybe other companies are starting to push devices with higher resolution, but currently Apple is the only brand with laptops with high resolution displays.
 
Rob Anderson said:
I gotta hand it to you guys; if anyone is 'thread-crapping' and ruining an otherwise informative thread with lots of good discussion back and forth, it's you two prattling on like this. Here's an idea... Move along and let the big boys chat. Thanks.
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Prattling on, Huh? Informative big boys? Kilgroe is informative, you in the other hand are speculative and condescending.
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
*snip*
Retina displays are neither a new invention, it's just a costlier display that is harder to produce. And Apple happens to be the consumer electronic product company that found it important to increase the screen resolution, when others didn't.
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To everything you just wrote: wow.

Jon, LG designed and sold the panels. No comment on the rest of it. Speaks for itself.
 
Rob Anderson said:
Your sole contribution to this entire thread is to call it a 'turd' and I'm the condescending one?

Oh I see, this is bait.
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I was not attempting to contribute to the thread at all actually, just simply suggesting that it was in the wrong place. (Thank you mod for moving it.) The characterization was of the larger discussion, not a personal observation directed at you and therefore not bait. That is why i say no, I don't feel that I was being condescending. It is true though that I don't find the premise of this thread to be insightful or useful, and the ensuing discussion is not all that informative. That is just my personal perspective. I don't expect you to agree, and that is fine with me.
 
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Rob Anderson said:
Because the Retina displays are an LG product, this isn't Apple "pushing towards 4K". This is LG doing it, along with a number of other panel makers, and Apple is just one of many carts latched onto those horses. And I question how far back they're hitching their cart.
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Apple doesn't do any screens themselves at all. High resolution or not. So I do not get your point. What matters is what panels they put in their devices, and it is clear that they are on a resolution war.

They will probably not make the panels for their tv's either. HD or 4K.
 
Apple has a VERY small team of flat panel engineers who work with the Asian suppliers like LG and Samsung to tweak their designs and cutting edge display tech to Apple's benefit for use in future products and the suppliers get to use those tweaks in all the panels that don't go to Apple. That's how it works. Anyone who tells you otherwise is misinformed.
 
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Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
You should try to get you head out of your ass and learn, instead of trolling on a subject you obviously understand little about...

Packing four times the pixels into the new iPad's Retina Display has proven to be a challenge for Apple's manufacturing partners...​
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If Apple is setting the specs for the displays then they are indeed driving the technology rather than simply employing existing tech as previously suggested. This is true whether or not they are doing any of the engineering themselves.
 
Scott Crawley said:
If Apple is setting the specs for the displays then they are indeed driving the technology rather than simply employing existing tech as previously suggested. This is true whether or not they are doing any of the engineering themselves.
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I 100% agree with this. The disagreement has become if Apple is doing this or if it was already done and shopped to them. The fact is, it was already done (then shopped and sold to Apple). The 'small panel group at Apple' is there to ensure QA, delivery, order spec, vendor evaluations, and all of the other things any supplier relationship of this magnitude would require. Everything I know (first and third party) is Apple was sold and branded those panels.

If I'm miss informed by that, myself along with a heck of a lot of other people would be very interested in proof of it.

Jon, your obnoxiously sized URL to Appleinsider and advice to 'pull my head out of my ass' is not proof or even a direct counter to anything I've been saying here. Grow up.
 
harrison mason said:
it's not 4k it's 1080p
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Agree. Thank you.

Everyone ready to get back to the main discussion yet? Would an Apple Television at 1080 slow 4K in the home? Can pressure from SONY, RED, create a situation where an Apple Television would 'fail' because of it not being 4K?
 
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