Testing Zeiss Master Primes vs Ultra Primes

[Andrew M.]

Review of older Canon 14mm 2.8 L USM lens

LINK>>>

This is review of the old 14mm, the new one is II L created specifically for Ds1 MKIII 21MP
The new one review I have seen somewhere, side by side comparison, review pictures 1:1 cutouts were showing 2 pixels CA on old one and almost nothing on the new one.

I got new one and had to sent it back since it had 3 pixels blue CA fringing, only on the left side of the picture. The new one I got is still not as good as the review I have seen but one pixel CA on 21MP sensor is not bad.
I didn't test lp/mm resolving power of 14mm Canon yet. I will wait for Birger mount.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I'll throw my 4¢ in here (Adjust for the inflated lens market).
Pretty much all the modern (80s and beyond) Cine lenses and all of the pro lenses made by Canon and Nikon in the last 12 years are going to out resolve the Mysterium sensor to within 15% of the edge of frame. Only very rarely and only in the most extreme circumstances will you be able to substantively discern the differences between even a lowly Zeiss Standard speed, a Nikon or Canon L and a brand new Master prime. Does that mean their not worth $30K a lens. Of course not, they have a bunch going for them including speed, the smoothest focus I've ever seen and truly beautiful Bokeh. I guess my point is that all of this lens projecting and Chart shooting is great and useful but it's probably more valuable to talk about theses lenses like what they are....

...Paintbrushes.

We can talk about how many hairs our paintbrushes have or how wide they are or how well they are made, but in the end it may be more useful to talk about the brush stroke than the bristles.

This is exactly my point, different lenses for different jobs, but the most important factor is that each flow on each lens should be embrace for its artistic value, as both CA and Vignetting as well as other lens, individual charatteristics have been carefully designed to be that way, and one can't put it under a microscope, analizing those that seem flows but in reality are qualities of each lens.


I know I love the MP's for their speed, design and incredible fill to them, this were the very first Cine lenses I ever touched and play with, "LOve @ First Site" or "Touch"!

Speed is by far one of the elements that I look the most in a lens, a the Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II super speed is my absolute favored lens, and the Bokeh on this baby is just Stunningly Beautiful.

I truly hope that RED develops Super Speeds T1.3, but till then I'll most likely end up getting the MP.


Obviously it is greatly appreciated the time put in to this tests, but when I did several tests with the Canon glass, the charts told me one thing and the real world an other, and it was beautiful to see the results.

ciao

 

[radiant]

This is exactly my point, different lenses for different jobs, but the most important factor is that each flow on each lens should be embrace for its artistic value, as both CA and Vignetting as well as other lens, individual charatteristics have been carefully designed to be that way, and one can't put it under a microscope, analizing those that seem flows but in reality are qualities of each lens.


I know I love the MP's for their speed, design and incredible fill to them, this were the very first Cine lenses I ever touched and play with, "LOve @ First Site" or "Touch"!

Speed is by far one of the elements that I look the most in a lens, a the Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II super speed is my absolute favored lens, and the Bokeh on this baby is just Stunningly Beautiful.

I truly hope that RED develops Super Speeds T1.3, but till then I'll most likely end up getting the MP.


Obviously it is greatly appreciated the time put in to this tests, but when I did several tests with the Canon glass, the charts told me one thing and the real world an other, and it was beautiful to see the results.

ciao

Hello Ketch,
I agree with you 100%, I also remember the first time I held my Master Primes, it was love at first sight.

We also tested a vast amount of lenses for our film. The chart only gives you the technical data. At the end of the day, it's all about real world use.

To me it's more important to have the right tools which enable you then having tools which only make you compromise your vision.


Thanks

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Something odd though about the cheapest digital cine camera needing the most expensive 35mm cine lenses ever built to go on it... What sort of indie filmmaker revolution is that, if you feel you need to buy $100,000 or more in optics to put on a $17,500 body?

I love Master Primes too, but even I can't afford them most of the time. And this is on features budgeted over 10-million dollars... I can justify the cost for select night scenes, but it's hard to get production to pay for them for an entire show.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

True David, but at the same time, at list for me, even so the hopes are high for the Birger mount so I can use Canon lenses, I do get resistance from any one I speck to about wanting to use them on a shoot, and understandibly so.

But I do believe in the Indie revolution that RED has created, but it is not unusual for me to put glass that is more expensive then the camera it self.


For what I like to achieve in and n the way I like to do it, using very little light, been very mobile, and create a more organic and natural fill, I like to recreate some of the fillings that I have found when shooting stills with super speeds.

As an indie I would never buy the MP's, but as I have several features lined up, I believe that any gear purchased for my company, is a good feature prove investment, and the MP's will likely be in such of list.

My first film budget is in the 50 to 100 mil, so this could make the purchase of 250k in lenses a more plousable one.


But at the end I don't must have them, if Canon those the job or any other lenses for that matter, what I want is to get what I want out of a piece of gear, it must serve the purpose for which is purchased, no matter the cost, it can be the cheapest and no name pice of gear, or the most exensive and popular one, it not matters to me, I will use them together or interchange them as I please or can, as I will not be working alone, but the good thing is that not having to deal with renting out, I can be more forgiven on some gear, like the purchase of the RR MB, as people say that professionals in the industry will not want to have that as an MB, but me I have no problem, as I'm not a professional, I'm just a Filmmaker with a story to tell.


ciao
ciao

 

[radiant]

Something odd though about the cheapest digital cine camera needing the most expensive 35mm cine lenses ever built to go on it... What sort of indie filmmaker revolution is that, if you feel you need to buy $100,000 or more in optics to put on a $17,500 body?

I love Master Primes too, but even I can't afford them most of the time. And this is on features budgeted over 10-million dollars... I can justify the cost for select night scenes, but it's hard to get production to pay for them for an entire show.

Hello david,
I was always told "buy the least expensive camera and place the best glass" for the best results.

We found the prices of all lenses to be over $100,000
Difference of price between the Cooke's, Ultra Prime's and the Master Primes is at most 15% more.

We are all part of this revolution of the indie filmmaker's. It's also my job to enable the filmmaker's with their vision with the best possible solutions.
These lenses are specialty tools. Just as RED is a specialty tool for some jobs, not all jobs.

We are all on this quest, to find the best possible solutions.

Thanks,

 

[Andrew M.]

What is wrong with Zeiss Super Speeds?
At 2K I don't see any difference.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

What is wrong with Zeiss Super Speeds?
At 2K I don't see any difference.

Nothing wrong with them, apart that they are just hold, outdated, and bitten up overpriced lenses!

Besides since I'll be going with 3 Epic's asap as they are available, I think investing in the best glass money can buy, it is not an all in all bad idea, is it?

ciao

 

[radiant]

Camera technology changes daily. A great piece of glass is classic, it does not matter if it's 4k, today or 5k tomorrow.

I think it's a great investment.

Our Master Primes, Super Speeds and Cooke's are all out all the time.
Especially with all these new RED camera's on the market, all the rental houses are booked for months and months.

I would highly recommend you purchase them before the price goes up again.
We just had a price increase from Arri on our Master Primes.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Could not agree more to that Radiant.

ciao

 

[Pawel Achtel]

What is wrong with Zeiss Super Speeds?
At 2K I don't see any difference.

Get a wide angle lens and open it up. You will be able to see the difference very clearly.

 

[radiant]

Get a wide angle lens and open it up. You will be able to see the difference very clearly.

We did the same test Pawel is talking about, he is correct the 14mm MP vs. 18mm Super Speed is a huge difference.

 

[Evin Grant]

Honestly, this is why I prefer the standard speeds. They're just sharper and more importantly, higher contrast at T2.1-4. Of course "When you absolutely positively have to shoot every M&$%$@# F%$#@$& in the (candle lit) room... Except no substitutes."

 

[Evin Grant]

Speed is by far one of the elements that I look the most in a lens, a the Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II super speed is my absolute favored lens, and the Bokeh on this baby is just Stunningly Beautiful.

We differ in our lens brand preferences but not our philosophy's Ketch.
My favorite optic of all time is the 28mm F1.4 Nikkor...

The 85mm F1.4 Nikkor is no slouch either...

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Talkin' about a speed or a sharpness>>>

Leica Summilux-R 50mm f1.4@wide open f1.4 (1:1 detail), no flash fired.

SASS CLUB Vienna dancers, shot with Leica Summilux-R 50mm f1.4 @ f1.4 on Canon 40D, no flash fired.

 

[James T Mather]

certainly looks like a flash shot to me.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

certainly looks like a flash shot to me.

No, it's a club spinning spotlight that came from a side.

I was just waiting for that moment of light to shoot.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

***

We differ in our lens brand preferences but not our philosophy's Ketch.
My favorite optic of all time is the 28mm F1.4 Nikkor...

The 85mm F1.4 Nikkor is no slouch either...***

Thanks Evin.


One of the main reasons I stopped using the fantastic HASSELBLAD Cameras was because of the slow lenses of that medium, and one of the reasons I love Canon and Nikon, and now for Cinema the T*1.3 Super Speeds, and as I know there are several choices out there, the ARRI/ZEISS MP's are by far the Best, in all aspects, which are more then just few, and here again goes, you pay for what you get, or you get what you pay for,( well at exception of RED of course)


Each of us, as creators of our own images, we like to twist and play with light and filter our shots in such a various ways, and that is the beauty of creation, the variety of the images created by different individuals, and for me the importance of Fast Lenses, it does not stop to the fact of the absolute beautiful power of Isolating your subject, or the fact of having the available option to shoot wide open in the darkest set ups, and still be able to pull it off.

It is a matter of the organic fill that I can get out of fast lenses when setting up the shot, it is the fact of setting up faster with less lights, and C-Stands in the way, it is about less power consumption and less staff to carry around, and the list goes on and on, so at the end paying for Super Speeds such as the MP. does pay off in many ways, including been more ECO friendly in your shoots, using less power and polluting less, as this is also a very important element in all my shoots, both in the photography and Cinematography world.

ciao

 

[Emmanuel Cambier]

I am planning to get some MP this summer, and while I agree with Ketch and Evin that only the end result really matter, I'd like to know how serious is that vigneting.

Emmanuel

 

[Andrew M.]

I am planning to get some MP this summer, and while I agree with Ketch and Evin that only the end result really matter, I'd like to know how serious is that vigneting.

Emmanuel

one stop from the center to the side and about 1 1/2 stop all the way to the the corner at 2:1
16:9 will be bit more, maybe 1.7 stop.
It is for 65mm Master Prime.

Check it yourself by scanning edges and then center in PS or any other color editing program that reads values for RGB. 110 the lowest 240 higest number I am reading.

and test setup here:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=191917&postcount=2

You can see vignetting right in the LCD there.
This is 16mm MP I am about to test there, the picture of chart above comes from 65mm test.
Yet, as you see on the test setup picture the light was very even and dispersed.

I didn't post test of 16 mm MP lenses chart because I set the distance from the chart to the camera wrong, I measured from the chart to the focus hook. I forgot that for 10 times magnification you have to measure from the chart to the lenses focal node or 11 times distance to the focus hook.
Sure enough if you make such mistake you get much better readings since the camera is closer.