Can, and does. ;-(..
And also puts the points at the wrong place and at the wrong level, even when using a rather smooth curve. Hence the harsh faces, buried detail, and other visually unpleasant results.
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"Tattoo" project notes...
- Thread starter Jannard
- Start date
Can, and does. ;-(..
And also puts the points at the wrong place and at the wrong level, even when using a rather smooth curve. Hence the harsh faces, buried detail, and other visually unpleasant results.
Graeme Nattress
RED Problem Solver
I don't think there's much saving us from the camel hump colourist no matter what we do, Mike! Other than perhaps make t-shirts that advertise the issue and perhaps a twitter campaign?
Graeme
Graeme
Gunleik Groven
REDuser Sponsor
I like the anti camel hump campaign allready! 
)
)Maybe a circle with a camel in it and a slash across it?
My main point is that for many, if not most, colorists, they'll getter a better first result by using a properly designed LUT than they will by trying to create a curve that mimics it. A less harsh, more-accurate-to-the-original-photography result. That's my bottom line.
Luis Otero
Well-known member
AND... Where is "Tatoo" pasted?
Ido Karilla
Well-known member
Hey, some of us live in the middle east, enough wars around here already!
Lorenzo Straight
Well-known member
Not sure, has the video been posted yet?
Imran Farouk
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not that I've seen on the forums,
When it is posted it'll probably be a whole new post in Recon, since this is "notes" so keep checking there... I could be wrong though but seems reasonable
- Banned
- #129
Chuck Z
Banned
It would be nice for RED to send out an e-mail blast every time there was a new Recon thread because they tend to be of some importance.
Justin Paloma
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I feel like starting the slow clap for Jarred to post the video. Really looking forward to seeing it!
Really looking forward to seeing it!
Danny Murray
Well-known member
Clap......................................................................................................................................... clap
The download link is here: http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?58305-TATTOO
David Devlin
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tattoo shoot day one notes
tattoo shoot day one notes
hello all
i've been receiving a growing number of emails from redusers regarding 'tattoo' and wanted to address some of the questions posed in the forum so others can participate
thanks for the positive feedback on the film, it was a terrific experience
when i first received word from red command, i was excited to see what the epic could do and to help jim and jarred
i naturally thought it would be at least few days until the job... it turned out to be 30 hours notice before we started prep, only complicated by being 1800 miles away
a quick phone call with jarred and bill was all that was needed to sway me to change some plans and begin a memorable week helping to craft 'tattoo'
i was lucky to have crew on the film that i've worked with on many spielberg films, alot of common experience between us.
asa / lenses / look
initially i had intended to shoot at very high asa, using little light, wide aperture etc.
from recently completing 'warhorse', janusz and mark spath had sold me on the master primes even though i have been in love with the angenieux zooms
i found the red primes interesting but decided to go with the master primes because i thought i'd be at 1.3 and knew what to expect from them
wondering how safe or how much he wanted to control the look; i asked jim if 2500 asa and shooting with the master primes would be alright with him.
'anything that gives you the look you're going for is alright with me' wasn't exactly the response i expected. how more supportive could he be.
we ended up using the red primes on the b camera as well as the master primes thoughout the shoot.
after the first prep day and on the set build day everything slowly changed in my mind due to one factor
bill paxton
he was bringing alot to the table
a good story, interesting dialogue, very good production design, very good costumes, talented actors, and his full attention to everything
instead of serving the interest of just showing off technical aspects of the camera, it became clear that servicing the script and the fable nature of the story was becoming more important.
as i walked around handheld with the camera on the build day, the feel of the camera has an uncanny resemblance to my 67ii and rz67 solid and capable
there were some raw and stark images that impressed me with candles and practical lamps, but as i thought of the story it seemed it would undercut the tone of the story to pursue that
kitty, the production designer, began dressing the saloon and it looked so great i wanted the depth and detail to register as lush
on the saloon prelight
instead of super high asa, 1000 seemed a good fit for the practicals because i wanted to have alittle more depth of field
we began lighting and by lunch i was metering our exposure at 2 / 2.8 for the values to fall properly
setting the kelvin on the camera at 3700.
having worked in fashion photography for many years and over the past 8 the digital revolution has fully taken over
from this experience, i don't light based on the lut on the day. i light to my meter and use the lut as a reference.
much easier and faster, less to worry about. truly consider the sensor as i would film. much less stress.
day one
saloon shooting
getting the steadicam shot lit and finished took the morning
1/4 low contrast + 1/4 black promist seemed to complement the haze in the set without overwhelming it
steadicam operator, george billinger did a great job even though plenty of lights were scattered in the frame for him to avoid
on the bar; 100w light bulbs in porcelians on dimmers are my favorite for compact portable lighting blackwrap shapes it easily
though it was looking too warm toned and lacked richness.
adding 1/2 blue on ambient lights (china balls / silver bounces) in order to have color contrast and color depth helped to round out the colors
having powers boothe start in blue light 3 stops under seemed menacing and liked the idea of the flickering oil lamps even if it makes no sense whatsoever
as a basic strategy, having color range to any light on an actors face is a good idea. in the digital still photography world, it's essential. i respect the phase one backs, but they require help in rendering good rich skin tones. i've had good luck using at least three different subtle colors on a person's face to print successfully in that environment.
on all of the faces except for the brunette at the bar, there are several subtle colors on the faces.
during the di, i was astounded in the color range within these different sources. much more color depth than previous experience with digital sensors. i will probably say this many times, but the 4k projection displays what this camera is capable of brilliantly.
i liked the flicker and movement to the light, but knew that somebody would attribute it to some defect in the camera. asking jim and jarred what their thoughts about it were. jim replied 'whatever choices you would make in a feature, you should make here" so i left it this was one of many times jim and jarred went out of their way to let bill and i have alot of fun with this. even if they knew it meant someone, somewhere would come up with a complaint.
diopters
i like half diopters for this genre
something about westerns make a diopter shot in 2.4:1 work well
my friend, artist matt mahurin used swing and tilt lenses to great success and i appreciate how they can work on different levels more technically perfect
but there is a constructed aesthetic to the diopters that add to certain scenes
again i wondered as i looked at the noticeable optical flaws of the half diopter are jarred and jim going to kill me for suggesting something that someone / somewhere will certainly say is because of their camera jarred: "i think it looks cool, he looks like he's got two ears go for it" the best
steve miesler tried to make it work for the gun shot towards the girl, but it was doomed.
after 20 minutes of unsuccessful positioning, bill suggested the rack and it works great in the edit.
15 hour shoot day, long but enjoyable.
tattoo shoot day one notes
hello all
i've been receiving a growing number of emails from redusers regarding 'tattoo' and wanted to address some of the questions posed in the forum so others can participate
thanks for the positive feedback on the film, it was a terrific experience
when i first received word from red command, i was excited to see what the epic could do and to help jim and jarred
i naturally thought it would be at least few days until the job... it turned out to be 30 hours notice before we started prep, only complicated by being 1800 miles away
a quick phone call with jarred and bill was all that was needed to sway me to change some plans and begin a memorable week helping to craft 'tattoo'
i was lucky to have crew on the film that i've worked with on many spielberg films, alot of common experience between us.
asa / lenses / look
initially i had intended to shoot at very high asa, using little light, wide aperture etc.
from recently completing 'warhorse', janusz and mark spath had sold me on the master primes even though i have been in love with the angenieux zooms
i found the red primes interesting but decided to go with the master primes because i thought i'd be at 1.3 and knew what to expect from them
wondering how safe or how much he wanted to control the look; i asked jim if 2500 asa and shooting with the master primes would be alright with him.
'anything that gives you the look you're going for is alright with me' wasn't exactly the response i expected. how more supportive could he be.
we ended up using the red primes on the b camera as well as the master primes thoughout the shoot.
after the first prep day and on the set build day everything slowly changed in my mind due to one factor
bill paxton
he was bringing alot to the table
a good story, interesting dialogue, very good production design, very good costumes, talented actors, and his full attention to everything
instead of serving the interest of just showing off technical aspects of the camera, it became clear that servicing the script and the fable nature of the story was becoming more important.
as i walked around handheld with the camera on the build day, the feel of the camera has an uncanny resemblance to my 67ii and rz67 solid and capable
there were some raw and stark images that impressed me with candles and practical lamps, but as i thought of the story it seemed it would undercut the tone of the story to pursue that
kitty, the production designer, began dressing the saloon and it looked so great i wanted the depth and detail to register as lush
on the saloon prelight
instead of super high asa, 1000 seemed a good fit for the practicals because i wanted to have alittle more depth of field
we began lighting and by lunch i was metering our exposure at 2 / 2.8 for the values to fall properly
setting the kelvin on the camera at 3700.
having worked in fashion photography for many years and over the past 8 the digital revolution has fully taken over
from this experience, i don't light based on the lut on the day. i light to my meter and use the lut as a reference.
much easier and faster, less to worry about. truly consider the sensor as i would film. much less stress.
day one
saloon shooting
getting the steadicam shot lit and finished took the morning
1/4 low contrast + 1/4 black promist seemed to complement the haze in the set without overwhelming it
steadicam operator, george billinger did a great job even though plenty of lights were scattered in the frame for him to avoid
on the bar; 100w light bulbs in porcelians on dimmers are my favorite for compact portable lighting blackwrap shapes it easily
though it was looking too warm toned and lacked richness.
adding 1/2 blue on ambient lights (china balls / silver bounces) in order to have color contrast and color depth helped to round out the colors
having powers boothe start in blue light 3 stops under seemed menacing and liked the idea of the flickering oil lamps even if it makes no sense whatsoever
as a basic strategy, having color range to any light on an actors face is a good idea. in the digital still photography world, it's essential. i respect the phase one backs, but they require help in rendering good rich skin tones. i've had good luck using at least three different subtle colors on a person's face to print successfully in that environment.
on all of the faces except for the brunette at the bar, there are several subtle colors on the faces.
during the di, i was astounded in the color range within these different sources. much more color depth than previous experience with digital sensors. i will probably say this many times, but the 4k projection displays what this camera is capable of brilliantly.
i liked the flicker and movement to the light, but knew that somebody would attribute it to some defect in the camera. asking jim and jarred what their thoughts about it were. jim replied 'whatever choices you would make in a feature, you should make here" so i left it this was one of many times jim and jarred went out of their way to let bill and i have alot of fun with this. even if they knew it meant someone, somewhere would come up with a complaint.
diopters
i like half diopters for this genre
something about westerns make a diopter shot in 2.4:1 work well
my friend, artist matt mahurin used swing and tilt lenses to great success and i appreciate how they can work on different levels more technically perfect
but there is a constructed aesthetic to the diopters that add to certain scenes
again i wondered as i looked at the noticeable optical flaws of the half diopter are jarred and jim going to kill me for suggesting something that someone / somewhere will certainly say is because of their camera jarred: "i think it looks cool, he looks like he's got two ears go for it" the best
steve miesler tried to make it work for the gun shot towards the girl, but it was doomed.
after 20 minutes of unsuccessful positioning, bill suggested the rack and it works great in the edit.
15 hour shoot day, long but enjoyable.
David Devlin
Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2011
- Messages
- 11
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
tattoo shoot day two notes
tattoo shoot day two notes
day two
stairs
i like these shots
simple, graphic, evocative
the coen brothers shot in 'miller's crossing' when tom waits outside the door at the end of the film came to mind when i saw the set.
kitty came up with an interesting hue in the color we had discussed in prep and put detailed attention towards how the conduit would power the practicals
jim kwaitkowski and jamie franta made a jib arm work for what should be a techno shot
i wasn't concerned about the practicals blowing out. after the second take, i wanted to try the hdrx out and turned it on.
wow is that an interesting option. even though aestheticly, i don't mind them going white. in the di, it was such a pleasure to choose exactly how much i wanted.
having the light fixture do all the work and then being able to take the resolved image and replace it, if wanted, is awesome.
i chose to have it be bright , but have the ribs of the sconce be visible.
in the di, it was late and i got lazy and left the one in the red hallway as it would be at 8 stops overexposed. it's only there for a beat, but you can see the effective yet subtle qualities of hdrx at work on the fixtures on the green wall compared to the one on the red wall. impressive
the old man's apartment
to keep the image consistent, it was all shot with the 1/4 low contrast + 1/4 black promist
i liked the idea image sharpness wouldn't jump out as a change.
initially i had thought to have interactive lights outside the window. some moving, some flashing. vibrant colors, shafts of lights... etc.
as we finished shooting the doorway shot, i felt like this was going to resemble a music video rather than a film and scrapped it.
i needed 40 minutes to make a lush dark mood to replace the other idea. i apologized to bill, and he was completely cool and agreed.
the color qualities on james hong's face when seated is very interesting to me.
there are the three sources top: 1/2 cto, 1/4 green front: white, 1/8 magenta practical led lamp: 1/4 blue, 2/3 green
the issue i was most impressed about is the color depth and contrast range within these sources.
in the di, there were no colors to suppress or desaturate.
magenta beside green requires the gradations within each color to be rich or it results in unpleasing results.
viewing the compressed images doesn't do any justice to the subtle work that this sensor is able to accomplish.
some will say that what use is it if we can't see it online on my computer.
this ignores the power of the emerging cinema experience that will draw people to want to see films in a way not available in standard devices.
high quality 4k projectors have ultra depth to colors as well as resolution.
the highest quality stuff is exciting and is where filmmaking is headed.
alleyway shots
when i arrived on the first prep day, i had left from a snowy place.
having snow in the opening sequence, seemed to add to the mystic nature of the stranger character and the sense of place to the story.
chosing to have strong colors went away from the desaturated blue/green look so commonly accomplished lately
the richness to the blacks and lack of any noise is apparent.
rolling at 120fps at 5k was painless, but while shooting the slow motion it became apparent to me that the fake snow... looked like fake snow
realizing that someone / somewhere would say that it was some defective aspect of the camera, i brought it up
as you can probably expect... jim: "shoot it like you would shoot a feature" the best
final old man's apartment
by the time we were shooting this short scene, finding more colors to show a time transition seemed reasonable.
initially i'd described the shot to bill with the camera pulling away from james hong to find the stranger off camera right and then james stepping forward to build tension
but in the rehearsal, when the camera pulled back, james continued to walk with the camera.
as all great actors would do, he kept in the closeup, to the focus puller's surprise, as we reveal the stranger. much better shot.
colors sourced thru the window: true blue double primary yellow sunset red half ctb
back rimlight: double ctb
final stranger shot: key 1/2 cto 1/4 green rimlight double ctb
obviously there are alot of colors happening in this short scene. getting this graded in the di was effortless
ian found the right balance very near to our base settings despite rich color contrast and depth as well as steep exposure contrast
conclusion
i went through most of the questions people have emailed about.
it was a memorable time for bill and i. we had a blast.
i felt like i was working on the best "nyu sight and sound" film imaginable
i'm not a video guy nor a film guy as much as i love imagemaking
this camera goes a long way towards allowing us to make images that audiences won't expect
david devlin
tattoo shoot day two notes
day two
stairs
i like these shots
simple, graphic, evocative
the coen brothers shot in 'miller's crossing' when tom waits outside the door at the end of the film came to mind when i saw the set.
kitty came up with an interesting hue in the color we had discussed in prep and put detailed attention towards how the conduit would power the practicals
jim kwaitkowski and jamie franta made a jib arm work for what should be a techno shot
i wasn't concerned about the practicals blowing out. after the second take, i wanted to try the hdrx out and turned it on.
wow is that an interesting option. even though aestheticly, i don't mind them going white. in the di, it was such a pleasure to choose exactly how much i wanted.
having the light fixture do all the work and then being able to take the resolved image and replace it, if wanted, is awesome.
i chose to have it be bright , but have the ribs of the sconce be visible.
in the di, it was late and i got lazy and left the one in the red hallway as it would be at 8 stops overexposed. it's only there for a beat, but you can see the effective yet subtle qualities of hdrx at work on the fixtures on the green wall compared to the one on the red wall. impressive
the old man's apartment
to keep the image consistent, it was all shot with the 1/4 low contrast + 1/4 black promist
i liked the idea image sharpness wouldn't jump out as a change.
initially i had thought to have interactive lights outside the window. some moving, some flashing. vibrant colors, shafts of lights... etc.
as we finished shooting the doorway shot, i felt like this was going to resemble a music video rather than a film and scrapped it.
i needed 40 minutes to make a lush dark mood to replace the other idea. i apologized to bill, and he was completely cool and agreed.
the color qualities on james hong's face when seated is very interesting to me.
there are the three sources top: 1/2 cto, 1/4 green front: white, 1/8 magenta practical led lamp: 1/4 blue, 2/3 green
the issue i was most impressed about is the color depth and contrast range within these sources.
in the di, there were no colors to suppress or desaturate.
magenta beside green requires the gradations within each color to be rich or it results in unpleasing results.
viewing the compressed images doesn't do any justice to the subtle work that this sensor is able to accomplish.
some will say that what use is it if we can't see it online on my computer.
this ignores the power of the emerging cinema experience that will draw people to want to see films in a way not available in standard devices.
high quality 4k projectors have ultra depth to colors as well as resolution.
the highest quality stuff is exciting and is where filmmaking is headed.
alleyway shots
when i arrived on the first prep day, i had left from a snowy place.
having snow in the opening sequence, seemed to add to the mystic nature of the stranger character and the sense of place to the story.
chosing to have strong colors went away from the desaturated blue/green look so commonly accomplished lately
the richness to the blacks and lack of any noise is apparent.
rolling at 120fps at 5k was painless, but while shooting the slow motion it became apparent to me that the fake snow... looked like fake snow
realizing that someone / somewhere would say that it was some defective aspect of the camera, i brought it up
as you can probably expect... jim: "shoot it like you would shoot a feature" the best
final old man's apartment
by the time we were shooting this short scene, finding more colors to show a time transition seemed reasonable.
initially i'd described the shot to bill with the camera pulling away from james hong to find the stranger off camera right and then james stepping forward to build tension
but in the rehearsal, when the camera pulled back, james continued to walk with the camera.
as all great actors would do, he kept in the closeup, to the focus puller's surprise, as we reveal the stranger. much better shot.
colors sourced thru the window: true blue double primary yellow sunset red half ctb
back rimlight: double ctb
final stranger shot: key 1/2 cto 1/4 green rimlight double ctb
obviously there are alot of colors happening in this short scene. getting this graded in the di was effortless
ian found the right balance very near to our base settings despite rich color contrast and depth as well as steep exposure contrast
conclusion
i went through most of the questions people have emailed about.
it was a memorable time for bill and i. we had a blast.
i felt like i was working on the best "nyu sight and sound" film imaginable
i'm not a video guy nor a film guy as much as i love imagemaking
this camera goes a long way towards allowing us to make images that audiences won't expect
david devlin
Tim Whitcomb
Well-known member
Thanks David... again threads like this make all the noise SO worth it. Thanks for taking the time to share so much incredible information.
Last edited by a moderator:
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Thanks David for taking the time to post. We were incredibly lucky to have you on this show, and It was a pleasure to watch you work.
What a couple days that was!
What a couple days that was!
- Thread starter
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Jannard
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We knew David was the perfect DP for this about 5 minutes after he showed up. What a terrific experience.
Jim
Jim
AnthonyFlores
Well-known member
Thanks David, really kickass glimpse into some really awesome work by you and the team Hope you come back here more in the future ...
Hope you come back here more in the future ...
Joseph Hutson
Well-known member
Not only is it great to have you shoot the short, it has been great that you took the time to make some very informative points regarding the production.
Job well done to the entire team...
Job well done to the entire team...