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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Tape backup

Using the Quantum 600A SDLT tape drive for archiving here - with firewire 800 for online/offline storage. Current projects are kept on the server for immediate access. Not the fastest solution but allows us to have online/offline material and a archived tape in the vault.
 
thanks for the link nick shaw. appreciate it :)
 
some good info so far since i started this thread, thanks everyone.

could anyone post some links to actual units i could buy? im not trying to be lazy here, there just seem to be so many different tape drives etc and brands i really am lost and not sure what i should be looking at / deciding between.

i plan on using firewire drives and a raid as temproary online stuff and tape backup copies on a shelf, or multiple shelves somewhere.

the thing about quantum getting a dedicated reduser guy is crazy!
 
LTO-3 is native 400GB ... but LTO-4 is now at at native 800GB (from HP, not yet from Quantum).
See http://h18006.www1.hp.com/products/storageworks/ultrium1840/specs.html

The difference in price from what I briefly have found is ... about $1500 for LTO-3 drives and $35 for the media; compared to about $4500 for an LTO-4 drive, and $80 for media.

There's also DLT S4 which is native 800GB as well. The drives run around $2500 and the media around $80.

The transfer rates are 60MBps for DLT S4; and 120MBps for LTO-4 (you have to refer to the native not the compressed data rates for what we're doing, of course!)
So there are some cost / performance differences, obviously.

I don't know if there's much of a difference in long term reliability between the two technologies, but is there a real difference between 40 years and 50 years? By that time we'll just dump it all to molecular memory.


My own plan is to archive 2 copies of the 4k footage to tape - one to be kept off-site, the other kept local for immediate access. Meanwhile, I'm thinking to have an on-line server w/ something like 1k redcode proxies, where a reasonable array can hold many hundreds of hours or more - and still at a useful resolution.
 
we use harddisk for backup.
always different models & manufacturers.
copy over ervery 36 months or so.

had some unpleasant experiences with dat & lto.
btw: as far i know, HDCAM SR can be used as data tape backup as well.
 
laguun said:
we use harddisk for backup.

btw: as far i know, HDCAM SR can be used as data tape backup as well.
Click to expand...

That is not the case. HDCam SR is a video recorder only. Sony has hinted at other uses, but has never released any of them. The only video recorder that was also a data recorder that I know of was the Ampex DCT and DST models, and they were two different machines, although they were essentially the same thing internally.
 
mmost said:
That is not the case. HDCam SR is a video recorder only. Sony has hinted at other uses, but has never released any of them. The only video recorder that was also a data recorder that I know of was the Ampex DCT and DST models, and they were two different machines, although they were essentially the same thing internally.
Click to expand...

the digibetas had a data modification. from the hdcam / hdcam sr i only heard, never saw or asked.
 
ingramworks said:
Have you had a chance to test this hardware yet? Did it perform well, or any issues pop up?
Click to expand...

No, I haven't had a chance to test it yet. I haven't purchased a Macbook Pro yet, waiting to see if a new model comes out before my Red shows up. But the device is on my list of things to get for on set data management. Once it shows up, I will be doing a lot of tests.

Steve
 
laguun said:
the digibetas had a data modification. from the hdcam / hdcam sr i only heard, never saw or asked.
Click to expand...

If you're talking about the DTF format, that wasn't really a "digibeta modification," it was a completely different machine that happened to also use 1/2 inch tape. You might be thinking of the use of both Digibeta and D1 machines as archiving devices for both Quantel and Discreet systems, but that's more under the category of clever software from Quantel and Discreet than it is under the category of Sony modifications. In that scenario, the "data" was sent to the VTR in wrappers that masqueraded as video formats. This has been done by others as well - including Sony to some degree, in that they created the SDTI wrapper to masquerade compressed HD as SD video. In fact, part of the design criteria of HDCam's compression is that its rate is identical to that of uncompressed standard definition digital video (270Mbps, same as SMPTE 259M).

Any tape recorder is in actuality a "data" recorder in that it records information. Videotape recorders, however, only accept specific standards, which is what makes them video recorders.
 
Grand Funk said:
LTO-3 is native 400GB ... but LTO-4 is now at at native 800GB (from HP, not yet from Quantum).
See http://h18006.www1.hp.com/products/storageworks/ultrium1840/specs.html

The difference in price from what I briefly have found is ... about $1500 for LTO-3 drives and $35 for the media; compared to about $4500 for an LTO-4 drive, and $80 for media.

There's also DLT S4 which is native 800GB as well. The drives run around $2500 and the media around $80.

The transfer rates are 60MBps for DLT S4; and 120MBps for LTO-4 (you have to refer to the native not the compressed data rates for what we're doing, of course!)
So there are some cost / performance differences, obviously.

I don't know if there's much of a difference in long term reliability between the two technologies, but is there a real difference between 40 years and 50 years? By that time we'll just dump it all to molecular memory.


My own plan is to archive 2 copies of the 4k footage to tape - one to be kept off-site, the other kept local for immediate access. Meanwhile, I'm thinking to have an on-line server w/ something like 1k redcode proxies, where a reasonable array can hold many hundreds of hours or more - and still at a useful resolution.
Click to expand...

Speaking of online data storage, we are looking at HD log and Mac Digital Clip Library: http://www.imagineproducts.com/mac_library.htm

Here's some notes from my partner Scott:

I callled them and it's a little expensive for our needs, but seems to be better than final cut server. The software is 2999. It comes with the HD log gold and the ability to generate web pages that are searchable to a data base. They have built it so you do not need to be a programer to use it, just have to type and save. The benefit over Final cut server is simple, Final cut server needs everyone to own the program to use it, and with this only we need to own the program and anyone accesses the data via the internet.

Of course it has to encode all of our files into H264 quicktimes (we can use any codec, but this is best for the web for the size and streaming.) When they pick the clips they want and add them to the cart we get an xml file sent to us and open it in HD log and it pulls all the clips for us.

It works with any quicktimes and P2 stuff. So we can capture off of beta and do the same archive process, then when we get the xml file it will ask us to load beta tapes into the deck. Also it works with red right now, if we make our red clips quicktimes. They are planning on working with red in the future, but the guy said red has their hands full right now and they are waiting for them to allow 3rd party integration, then we should be able to use the xml in redcine etc.

As for tape drives, the Quantum LTO3A 400 gig Drive is 7499 (lists on the internet for over 8k) and 7100 with the combo discount. I looked up the LTO3 and the LTO3A on quantums website. The LTO3 is only 2k, but does not alllow for the integration with a data base. The LTO3A is designed for video and MXFs. Also it is ready to work with this software.

This seems like a great way to catalogue our footage. Even if it is on an LTO tape the data base will search our metadata database located on any computer and tell us which LTO tapes to insert into the drive.

We are not in a huge hurry and can download the demo of HDlog to see the initial interface and try that. Will post a review as time allows. Gotta find some solution until molecular memory. :spidy:

Aloha,

Vince
 
Question... how do you "print" to tape in OSX? I understand how it works when you've got the tape drive hooked up through ethernet. However, I haven't found how it works when your hooked up via SCSI... Also, depending on how you "print", I was wondering about sticking a LTO-3 SCSI drive in a SCSI to Firewire case so I can use the drive with many systems.

Matthew
 
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