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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Taking Stock: All things RED April 2010

David Battistella

David Battistella

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Hi all,

I've watched another NAB from the sidelines and am excited about everything happening. I just wanted to create this thread to take stock of where I think things are at at this moment with (many) things RED.

Here are some answers to what people might most want to know.



1. The RED one is the only current shipping camera from RED. A working prototype of the next generation Red camera, the EPIC was shown at NAB 2010

2. People who purchased RED ONES before October 29, 2009 are eligible and first in line for the EPIC line of camera's with the Mysterium X sensor.

3. A RED ONE purchased today does NOT come with a M-X sensor, it ships with the M sensor in the original RED ONE body.

4. Stage 2 of the EPIC program has been announced and current RED owners have the option to purchase an EPIC and keep their RED ONE for $19, 500.00. and have their RED ONE's upgraded for $5 750.00

5. Stage 1 or 2 RED ONE owners can upgrade their camera to M-X now and then get a 1250.00 rebate when they trade that camera back for the EPIC (effectively making the upgrade $ 4500.00) If they do not opt for EPIC they keep their RED ONE MX and forfiet any oportunity to get a deal on an EPIC.

6. A RED Rocket™™™ card costs 4750.00 unless you purchase it in an upgrade bundle with a sensor upgrade which then costs 8750.00 total upgrade price.

RED Rocket™™™ $4750.00
RED ONE M-X UPGRADE $5750.00
BUNDLE $8750.00

7. The EPIC Tatoo ( Tatoo is a group of RED selected beta users who will purchase limited edition camera's for $28,000.00) will commence in a couple of months (may/june 2010 is the current projection)

8. The first stage 2 EPICS are expected to be shipping by Aug/Sept/Oct/Nov of this year?

9. The Scarlet program is about two months behind EPIC. Scarlet is a 2/3" CMOS Chip professional 3K camera.

10. RED have released a product called RED Station which is a robust DATA COPY station. The base module and CF reader are available now on the RED STORE in a combo price of $500.00.

They have also announced and shown 64GB CF cards at NAB 2010

11. RED has a range of seven primes and two zoom lenses available for purchase. 18, 25, 35, 50, 85, 100, 300. 17-50, 18-85

12. The New Color Science is available in software builds for all RED ONE and RED ONE-M-X cameras as an official relese build. While the COlor science is the same for both M and M-X sensors, the M-X sensors which will be the sensor in the soon to be released EPIC has a lower noise floor than the original M sensor.

This does not make the M-X sensor faster, but the images are cleaner when pushed to higher ISO's. DP's who rated the M at 320 ISO can continue to do so and achieve even cleaner images with the M-X and more room to push with less noise.

Highlight protection is a bit more important with the M-X sensor.

The M and M-X sensors currently have the same read/reset times of 9ms resulting in similar SKEW characteristics to the RED ONE. Initially the M-X enabled RED ONE camera's were about 6ms (closer to film) but that had to be dialed back in camera firmware. No word on weather this clocking speed will be enabled in M-X RED ONES.

13. RED has released a NEW QUICKTIME CODEC

14. RED has released a BETA version of REDLINE for the NEW COLOR SCIENCE. This is significant for any 3rd party who wants to add distributed rendering ability to r3d material.

15. APPLE COLOR DOES support the new color science and Native R3D (as do all the major grading apps SCRATCH, BASELIGHT, PABLO, LUSTRE)

16. A NEW BETA VERSION of REDCINE-X now exists with many improvements and an enhanced, more functional GUI.

17. RED have announced an onboard module that will encode directly to H.264 QT files. This module would effectively eliminate the need to create dallies from RED footage because they will be created simultaneously. Also offers streaming via wifi for on set monitoring on iphones, ipads and laptops, etc.

I'm sure there is more to add, and I can keep adding to this post if you post in your observations. I just created this thread to have the quick hits in one place. Please PM me or post into this thread if I have made any errors and I will be glad to update this first post.

Happy times in REDland.

Is REDland a registered Trademark of RED DIGITAL CINEMA yet? :)

David
 
David, first of all, thanks for doing this. In re: #4 and #5, I thought the upgrade price for the MX sensor for R-1 for Stage 2 Epic cameras was $4500 as per the Oct. 30th thread. Has that changed or am I remembering incorrectly? $5750 for a straight upgrade?

Right or wrong, this information in one place is a big help.

Edit: a minor point, but Stage 2 and Stage 3 Epics are called Epic X. Stage 4 cameras are referred to as Epics. Do not know what difference, if any, that this denotes. Just know that I want the X factor.
 
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I think also that you get better goodies (larger monitor, pro in out module, more batteries) if you go stage 2 instead of stage 3?
 
Elsie N said:
Edit: a minor point, but Stage 2 and Stage 3 Epics are called Epic X. Stage 4 cameras are referred to as Epics. Do not know what difference, if any, that this denotes. Just know that I want the X factor.
Click to expand...

I believe the X factor is for those early buyers who get the upgrade bonus of free modules, etc.
 
Thanks for this David :)

It would be cool if there was a "Where RED is @" section on Recon - so we can all get the latest info without too much trawling!

All the best,

Tom
 
Nice write-up, David.

I believe Elsie is correct. It is $5750 for the MX upgrade. When your EPIC-X ships, you get a $1250 credit. (might be $1200, too lazy to look it up)

Also, I thought I heard RED say that they would allow you to pay the difference and get the Pro IO module with stage 2. At least I thought I heard this comment at the RED event. For now, I would consider it a rumor.
 
Stacey Spears said:
Nice write-up, David.
Also, I thought I heard RED say that they would allow you to pay the difference and get the Pro IO module with stage 2. At least I thought I heard this comment at the RED event. For now, I would consider it a rumor.
Click to expand...

This would be nice if it were more than just rumour :beer:
 
Tom Gough said:
Thanks for this David :)

It would be cool if there was a "Where RED is @" section on Recon - so we can all get the latest info without too much trawling!

All the best,

Tom
Click to expand...

Nice thought, I think a lot of reduser noise contributs heavily to FUD.

David
 
David Battistella said:
Nice thought, I think a lot of reduser noise contributs heavily to FUD.

David
Click to expand...

Completely agree.

One of the great assets of REDuser is the amount of debate but it can be a drag trawling through immense amounts of noise when trying to keep up with the latest info from RED. Very busy people and new RED shooters do struggle to keep up with the rapid change and certainly creates plenty of FUD.

All the best,

Tom
 
I'd like to ask about the pro I/O upgrade.. Does that apply only to stage 2 or stage 2 & 3?

Important question.

Right now I am leaning towards upgrading to M-X and then going to stage three

Jay
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
I'd like to ask about the pro I/O upgrade.. Does that apply only to stage 2 or stage 2 & 3?

Important question.

Right now I am leaning towards upgrading to M-X and then going to stage three

Jay
Click to expand...

Jay

Here is my thinking on this. If you are going to invest in an upgrade to your R1 then keep it and go stage 2. The thought of upgrading the camera and then handing it back to RED for an EPIC within months does not, to me, make as much sense.

It's kinda like fixing up your car to sell it. That money you are putting in has to have some value. But that is for you to decide.

If you upgrade to M-X then to me the decision is go stage 2 keep RED ONE M-X (but I'd like to see epic side by side with M-X before making that call...)

Or

Do nothing. Shoot with an excellent RED ONE on the new Bouild 30 color science (it's the best images I've seen out if my RED in the last two years) and wait patiently to thank NED, gently hand him back to Red in exchange for EPIC NED and own the best newest camera RED makes.

What I worry about most is that EPIC becomes a new standard and people will not be asking for M-X REDs. It's already a problem with the limited number of M-X bodies floating around. It seems every job that comes around is asking for or specifiying the M-X.

It's a very finicky business we are in where it all has to be latest greatest. This is a pure guess but i think there are a max of 300 MX's out there, compared to 6700 RED ONE's, but RED has done a great job of getting the word out about the quality of M-X, but it has perhaps somewhat diminished pecieved value.

I think that Build 30 on R1 and the New Color Science combined with the great new tools makes for a really fantastic image, but there will always be those who inist on M-X.

David
 
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