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table top cinematography

J

Joe Cage

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Hello,

If one would shoot with a phantom flex 4K at 1000fps what lights would be the best to light it? (liquids btw)
HMI to avoid the flickr? Not sure what lighting modifiers exist for HMI. Strip lights would be nice I think for creating a light stroke on each side of the bottle/glass. (I think most table top shots are 3 lights set ups?)


Thanks!
 
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Hello Joe,
As main sources you want HMIS with high speed ballasts. Power really depends on the distance of your lights. If you can work at close distance 1600w Jokers can work or even a 800w with SourceFour. If you are shooting food or cosmetics heat might me an issue and you need more powerful lights further away. As for modifiers I always start with hard lights, diffusion frames and flags. For accents or backlights I use Dedolight LEDs. I usually have 6 or 7 lights on my setups.
https://www.martinkonrad.com
 
I usually use high speed HMIs and Skypanel s360 can do you much good. Basically you have a fully controllable window at your disposal. :)

Is your camera moving? That can pretty much dictate how you light tabletop. Also, how deep is your DOF, some scenarios tend to have some pretty small aperture which calls upon some big ass lamps.

Maybe you can try with luminys or similar strobe lighting. What are you shooting?

You should check if is 1000fps your desired frame rate. Sometimes its just too slow. Testing testing testing.

If you can give us some more details, maybe we could help you even more.
 
Dedolight makes quite a line of HMI precision lighting instruments that work well. The 400DT is both daylight and tungsten and has all kinds of attachments for lighting control and in my opinion the "pride of the fleet". They also make soft lights that also accept the same bulbs. They run 400 watt bulbs at 575 watts with no loss of bulb life if needed or down to 300 watts so as to dim.

Dedo Weigert Film in Munich make the lights and I do know they have been in the high speed buisness since the 60's and have much experience with Phantom Flex cameras as they are a dealer or distributor for Europe. Might want to shoot them an email or call Munich for more info on using the combination. They are also Luminous agents if you need lighting up 200,000 watts which were developed for car crash and ballistic analysis
 
Yeah trying to shoot coffee(beans, cup, dripping, splashing) and possible a cocktail as well(trying to do 2 projects after each other). So fastest lens is F2.8, slowest is F14. So reckon we wont use the phantom for the F14 shots. Probably going to rent at this shop https://bit.ly/2S6mOy5
But trying to get the best light setup for the least amount of money, as its more of making a spec commercial kinda thing, getting these kinda things into my portfolio.
 
Shooting at 1000fps you will need around 5 times the amount of light you would use at 24fps
 
Martin Konrad said:
Hello Joe,
As main sources you want HMIS with high speed ballasts. Power really depends on the distance of your lights. If you can work at close distance 1600w Jokers can work or even a 800w with SourceFour. If you are shooting food or cosmetics heat might me an issue and you need more powerful lights further away. As for modifiers I always start with hard lights, diffusion frames and flags. For accents or backlights I use Dedolight LEDs. I usually have 6 or 7 lights on my setups.
https://www.martinkonrad.com
Click to expand...

Dedolights are really good on product and close proximity cinematography.

Hi Martin,

Couldn't resist the temptation of visiting your website. Needless to say, your workmanship and skills are exceptional. I love how you setup lights to get the most from your camera sensor. A true master at work.

Is it OK to ask what camera or cameras did you use on some of these commercials please?
 
Neil Abeynayake said:
Dedolights are really good on product and close proximity cinematography.

Hi Martin,

Couldn't resist the temptation of visiting your website. Needless to say, your workmanship and skills are exceptional. I love how you setup lights to get the most from your camera sensor. A true master at work.

Is it OK to ask what camera or cameras did you use on some of these commercials please?
Click to expand...

thanks Neil, of course its ok to ask, sharing is what makes this forum...
Apart from the slow motion bits which are shot on a 4k Phantom Flex, almost everything is Dragon sensor.
Some 6k stuff on rented cameras and almost everything I shot the last 2 years is on my Scarlet-W.
Fantastic camera, just don't starve the sensor of light! Most setups are at ISO 320 unless I
use hard light / strong backlighting in glass or diamonds in which case I try to play save and light for ISO 800.
 
https://www.arri.com/en/lighting/tun...o-t/studio-t12

Is the ARRI 12kw T12 flicker free for high speed phantom flex work?

Sorry to bump this again, but read somewhere that 10K thungsten lights are recommended. So my local dealer has the Arri T12 12kw for rent. But I dont know if they will cause flicker or not. somebody got an idea?
 
Big Tungsten.

12K's -20K's depending on distance to subject, and DOF desired.

NOw.... That said... the beverage stuff here was shot with Rayzr7 LED's, in the 300W daylight only variety. The lights and diffusion were VERY close, and we shot almost 1200Fps or so, at around a T1.8. Razor thin DOF. For most product work you want a LOT fo DOF.

 
12k is not very practical for table top stuff. To large to place close. With all HMIs it's the ballasts that determines the flicker. Most Arri units can be powered with the 1000Hz ballasts that are flicketsafe at 1000fps (I think he setting on the Flex at 4 is more like 960) but here in Paris at least you need to ask for high speed ballast.
 
Joe Cage said:
https://www.arri.com/en/lighting/tun...o-t/studio-t12

Is the ARRI 12kw T12 flicker free for high speed phantom flex work?

Sorry to bump this again, but read somewhere that 10K thungsten lights are recommended. So my local dealer has the Arri T12 12kw for rent. But I dont know if they will cause flicker or not. somebody got an idea?
Click to expand...

Yes, big tungstens are safe for high speed. From 2K@110V or 5K@220V up the filament is easily thick and strong enough that it wont show any flicker. Some folks DC power smaller units. Actually tungstens are the best choice, also regarding their color spectrum. Even with high speed ballasts HMIs can suffer from flicker caused by "arc wandering" inside the bulb, this is not related to the ballast. It is getting better with newest technology like Arri´s autoscan, also choice of bulb within a type or manufacturer if you decide to go this route. Good luck! Cheers, Ulf
 
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