Sync cable Lemo to XLR

[Billy McCannon]

I want to make up a sync cable to connect the Redone to a Tascam HD P2

I'd be very grateful if some could advise me on the pin configuration for the Lemo.

This is the information from both user Manuals:

Tascam HD p2

TIMECODE INPUT XLR-3-31 (1: GND, 2: HOT, 3:COLD)

Lemo

Timecode Input / Output
This connector supports SMPTE Timecode input and output. Pins 2 and 3 may be used together
to receive a balance SMPTE 12M serial time code input, or pin 2 may be used by itself (leave pin
3 open) to receive a single-ended SMPTE 12M serial time code input. Pin 5 is time code output.
Mating connector: LEMO FGG.0B.305.CLAD42Z

 

[Tom Visser]

I just did a pin/continuity test with my Sound Device XL-LX...
http://sounddevices.com/products/accessories.htm#timecode-cables

OUTPUT cable
XLR pin 2 to Lemo pin 5
XLR pin 3 to Lemo pin 1 (and case)

Warning, although not directly related to your question, if you use the Red as a time code master (usually the audio recorder is considered the TC master in a peer to peer situation), you will want to make sure you do not power down the camera. In order to do this and still be able to change batteries, without hooking up to AC power, you will need to get a 2-pin Anton Bauer style power tap in order to facilitate hot swapping batteries. The other option it to get a lockit style box from Denecke or Ambient. Otherwise, every time the Red powered down and back up, TC will be reset or drift, depending on firmware version.

 

[lonny dill]

I believe if you use edge timecode this should not be a problem. Edge code does not reset. This way you can power the camera down. Please let me know if I am incorrect. Also, can I assume that the sound devices 5 pin lemo will pin out direct to the red1 5 pin lemo?

 

[Tom Visser]

the pinout for the Lemo5 is standardized for all devices I have seen and certainly true with the RED/Sound Devices spec. I seem to recall certain builds not supporting timecode output, so if you are not running the latest build, check it out first. I'm not sure about your edgecode question.

 

[fatfatjames]

I heard with build 16 the timecode pin are reverse... Correct me if i am wrong i do no have the pin out number but this is what i heard...

 

[Andrae Palmer]

What cable would I need to Jam sync a RED One to a Motu 896mk3 via the analog input jacks?

 

[Brian Ferguson]

What cable would I need to Jam sync a RED One to a Motu 896mk3 via the analog input jacks?

You would need a 5 Pin Lemo to a XLR which you can get from Sound Devices or Ambient, or a dealer like Coffey or Location Sound, and you use one of the analog inputs as a input for the MOTU software to read the SMPTE code.

From the MOTU site. http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/896mk3/clock.html

"The included MOTU SMPTE Console™ software (for Mac OS X, Windows XP and Windows Vista) provides a complete set of tools to generate SMPTE for striping, regenerating or slaving other devices to the computer. Like CueMix FX, the synchronization features are cross-platform and compatible with all audio sequencer software that supports the ASIO2 sample-accurate sync protocol."

there is a difference between Word Clock and Time Code. Word Clock syncros the sample rate at i.e. 48,000 times a second so that 2 or more digital devices are totally locked up. SMPTE is to the frame rate say 24 fps. Word clock is more analogous to Genlock than Time Code. Word Clock is much more precise that TC. If you are recording to a computer or digital recorder it is important to share Word Clock in addition to the Time Code. Just like Genlock and TC they are separate issues. As in both it is important to have a Master signal that everything slaves to.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

there is a difference between Word Clock and Time Code. Word Clock syncros the sample rate at i.e. 48,000 times a second so that 2 or more digital devices are totally locked up. SMPTE is to the frame rate say 24 fps. Word clock is more analogous to Genlock than Time Code. Word Clock is much more precise that TC. If you are recording to a computer or digital recorder it is important to share Word Clock in addition to the Time Code. Just like Genlock and TC they are separate issues. As in both it is important to have a Master signal that everything slaves to.

Thanks Brian... does the RED One accept Word Clock? Does the MOTU generate Word clock or just accepts it?

 

[Brian Ferguson]

Thanks Brian... does the RED One accept Word Clock? Does the MOTU generate Word clock or just accepts it?

RED One doesn't take Word Clock but the MOTU should be able to generate or accept it. It is mainly used between your A/D converter (MOTU) and your recorder or computer recording program. It just keeps the sample rate constant so there isn't drift.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

RED One doesn't take Word Clock but the MOTU should be able to generate or accept it. It is mainly used between your A/D converter (MOTU) and your recorder or computer recording program. It just keeps the sample rate constant so there isn't drift.

I see that Epic will accept Word Clock. I've never given much thought before to the accuracy of electronic clocks before. I still have a hard time comprehending how Word Clock works... I know that it's a sample rate that keeps the clock accurate. I don't know how it goes about doing it.

 

[Brian Ferguson]

I see that Epic will accept Word Clock. I've never given much thought before to the accuracy of electronic clocks before. I still have a hard time comprehending how Word Clock works... I know that it's a sample rate that keeps the clock accurate. I don't know how it goes about doing it.

Well the Epic is versatile in concept and made up in modules. With a AES digital module you would have to enable Word Clock to keep in sync with external feeds.

I am not a "audio guru" just a guy further along the road you are starting. I have learned from internet forums and just from general curiosity. To understand A/D and samples it helps to know that analog audio is waves and to convert that to digital it is sliced up in to sections or "samples". So that the more slices (samples) there are as a waveform goes up and down the more accurate the digital representation of the analog signal is. So 48k is better than 32K samples and 96K better yet. 48K mean 48,000 times a second there is a conversion from analog to digital. The bit depth gives more info in each of those slices.

The Word Clock just makes sure that the samples are locked on multiple devices. The samples are regulated by crystals in some sort of electronic voodoo. Now if you go looking around the internet you can find stories stating that some sample clocks crystals are inferior and jitter and therefore are below par. For example explore this site -

http://www.blacklionaudio.com

But I can also find customer reviews on this company's (Black Lion) modifications which aren't so great. This subject gets to be a big rabbit hole that you can go way down into. So when people worry about time code being off by 1/24 th of a second others worry about audio being off by a few 1000ths. How accurate is your clock? I dunno.

I highly advise serious RED audiophiles to check out the web site

http://jwsound.net/Site/Welcome.html

It is a REALLY pro forum founded by location sound mixer Jeff Wexler and he is the son of legendary and Academy Award winning Director of Photography Haskell Wexler. It pays to just lurk and listen on this site, I pop up my head occasionally there, but it is a great place to learn pro tips of all kinds. They have more great info on what configurations to put your gear than I have ever seen online. They are warming up to RED cameras, much more so than year ago. This is a serious forum for working big feature union mixers. So my advise is listen and learn and browse and soak in the knowledge. So don't make me sorry I recommended it to you.

 

[Simon Baechler]

The Aaton cameras use the same connector for TC and the cables are compatible.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

The Word Clock just makes sure that the samples are locked on multiple devices. The samples are regulated by crystals in some sort of electronic voodoo. Now if you go looking around the internet you can find stories stating that some sample clocks crystals are inferior and jitter and therefore are below par. For example explore this site -

http://www.blacklionaudio.com

Thanks for taking the time to recommend those links and to explain things. This is a good article I found that explained things in a way that I could understand:

http://www.studiodaily.com/main/new...-Audio-In-Sync-Wordclock-Solutions_11315.html

Let's look at how drift plays out with a high end pro-sumer mixer/firewire audio interface, such as a Mackie Onyx 1640 or PreSonus StudioLive. Both of these products have excellent value, combining good sound quality and ease of use with low price. However, they lack one important feature: The ability to sync to an external clock such as wordclock. The end user is therefore required to use the device's internal sample rate clock. The component that drives the sample rate in any digital audio interface is a crystal controlled oscillator, and its accuracy is measured in Parts Per Million, or ppm. Every manufacturer has to make compromises to get their product to market, and since this interface was designed mainly for music recording, the crystal typically chosen for this purpose is spec'd with an accuracy of 50 ppm, which is good for even high end music recording. But when using this product to record sound for picture, that number tells a very different story:

An oscillator with an accuracy of 50 ppm translates to a timebase drift of about .05 ms, or 2.4 samples per second. Remember, MetaCorder rigs are often left recording for a few hours at a time, but for the sake of simplicity, let's say that the rig is making a one hour recording. Multiplied out, 2.4 samples per seconds becomes 8,640 samples per hour. Since there are about 1,600 samples per video frame, this equates to 5.4 frames per hour of drift - that's both audio and time code drift. Of course, some individual units may be more accurate than 50 ppm (the spec indicates the maximum oscillator drift), but without the ability to sync to an external source, the Mackie and Presonus mixers tie the customers hands.

 

[Neil Uchitel]

Billy, I use a P2. Just use the Sound Devices cable out to dual XLRs (one for TC in, one for TC out). Then connect a regular XLR mic extension to your P2. You can then decide if you want the P2 to slave to the camera or have the camera slave to the P2. Either way works fine. I've done both.