Support the new laws!!!

[Rob Ruffo]

Precisely the reason why you shouldn't start a thread called "Support the new laws" Rob......CAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE!


I'd like to address the other points later. As to you not caring what others think, at least we share that value.
Also, you still didn't respond to the notion of ownership of material that is created using public funds......'cause you and I both now that the taxpayer in this country pays for most of the production of almost any can-con created tv and film, big or small company aside.

I have never accepted a red cent from the government for production. I work for the States and Europe on for-profit ventures. I find what the government approves to often (not always, but very often) be boring and cloyingly politically correct. That's not why I went to filmschool. If there were only government sponsored films I would quit.

 

[Stephen Strangways]

The short-sighted thing I see many companies doing is taking extreme anti-piracy measures that end up punishing legitimate buyers and rewarding the ones get pirated material because the anti-piracy measures create tons of hassles for legitimate buyers.

Case in point #1) I know someone who received a legally store bought DVD of Wall-E as an xmas gift. She watched it over and over again, but got sick and tired of being forced to sit through nearly 10 minutes of warnings, disclaimers, promos, and company logos, before the movie would begin. There was no way to skip it, the menu and next buttons were locked out, something you could never do with a VHS.
So, in the end, she made a copy of the DVD she legally owns so she could enjoy it the way she wanted. Making backup copies, or copying to another media format, is a right that consumers have. Unfortunately, the DMCA in the U.S. makes exercising those rights illegal if you have to circumvent copy protection to do it. We, thankfully, don't have that in Canada (yet.)

Case in point #2) This same person purchased the computer game "The Sims 2" from an online retailer. It contains some pretty extreme DRM protection, and despite numerous emails and phone calls to tech support over several days, she was never able to get her legally purchased game to run on her computer. The last suggestion she received? The DRM was just incompatible with either her CD/DVD drive or her motherboard, and she should try replacing those components or buying a new computer. Instead, she downloaded a pirated copy and had that up and running perfectly in less than an hour.

Case in point #3) Assassin's Creed II game for the PC has DRM that requires players to be always connected to the internet. If for any reason they don't have an internet connection available (think of trying to play it on the road on a laptop) they can't play it. If for any reason the lose the internet connection during game play, all progress made since the last checkpoint or last time they saved is lost. And if the publisher ever decides to shut down the DRM servers a few years down the road, legitimate buyers will never be able to play the game ever again. Once a pirated version cracks the game, people playing that version won't have to put up with all the limitations and frustrations that the legitimate buyers will have to.

Yes, I think that piracy is a problem, but I don't think the solution is to assume that everyone is a potential pirate, and take draconian measures that only serve to punish the legitimate buyers.
DRM and such simply will never work in the long term (I doubt human ingenuity can create any form or protection that human ingenuity is unable to break,) and they go and put it on millions of copies of a movie or game, aggravating millions of people, and all it takes is the copy protection on one single copy to be broken one single time, and then everyone who downloads that pirated copy gets a better experience than the millions of legitimate buyers.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

The short-sighted thing I see many companies doing is taking extreme anti-piracy measures that end up punishing legitimate buyers and rewarding the ones get pirated material because the anti-piracy measures create tons of hassles for legitimate buyers.

Case in point #1) I know someone who received a legally store bought DVD of Wall-E as an xmas gift. She watched it over and over again, but got sick and tired of being forced to sit through nearly 10 minutes of warnings, disclaimers, promos, and company logos, before the movie would begin. There was no way to skip it, the menu and next buttons were locked out, something you could never do with a VHS.
So, in the end, she made a copy of the DVD she legally owns so she could enjoy it the way she wanted. Making backup copies, or copying to another media format, is a right that consumers have. Unfortunately, the DMCA in the U.S. makes exercising those rights illegal if you have to circumvent copy protection to do it. We, thankfully, don't have that in Canada (yet.)

Case in point #2) This same person purchased the computer game "The Sims 2" from an online retailer. It contains some pretty extreme DRM protection, and despite numerous emails and phone calls to tech support over several days, she was never able to get her legally purchased game to run on her computer. The last suggestion she received? The DRM was just incompatible with either her CD/DVD drive or her motherboard, and she should try replacing those components or buying a new computer. Instead, she downloaded a pirated copy and had that up and running perfectly in less than an hour.

Case in point #3) Assassin's Creed II game for the PC has DRM that requires players to be always connected to the internet. If for any reason they don't have an internet connection available (think of trying to play it on the road on a laptop) they can't play it. If for any reason the lose the internet connection during game play, all progress made since the last checkpoint or last time they saved is lost. And if the publisher ever decides to shut down the DRM servers a few years down the road, legitimate buyers will never be able to play the game ever again. Once a pirated version cracks the game, people playing that version won't have to put up with all the limitations and frustrations that the legitimate buyers will have to.

Yes, I think that piracy is a problem, but I don't think the solution is to assume that everyone is a potential pirate, and take draconian measures that only serve to punish the legitimate buyers.
DRM and such simply will never work in the long term (I doubt human ingenuity can create any form or protection that human ingenuity is unable to break,) and they go and put it on millions of copies of a movie or game, aggravating millions of people, and all it takes is the copy protection on one single copy to be broken one single time, and then everyone who downloads that pirated copy gets a better experience than the millions of legitimate buyers.

I agree (mostly) which si why being able to stop it at a network level will be such a great thing. That said, just because one DRM scheme is bad doesn't mean they all are, much like directors as boyfriends.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Personally I would like to see something like Redray revitalize what used to be the 16mm film circuits in the 60's and 70's. This was a vibrant rental distribution market for indies: colleges, museums, coffee house and art cinemas. It potentially provides a high quality low cost, secure and not easily transcodable distribution format for small venues and a completely different market for indies.

What's wrong with Blu-Ray?

The problem with "Art-House Theater" is they suck. Hard.

We have 4 art-house theaters in Seattle. Every single one of them is a balance between how badly I want to see the movie and how bad I want my back to hurt the next day.

The sound is usually worse than home. The theater is usually empty so I'm not getting the "Audience experience". The picture quality is comparable to home. Tickets cost as much as buying a Blu-ray or twice as much as an HD-DVD and the food is mediocre. And the aforementioned seats which are akin to sitting on a park bench for 3 hours without being able to get up and shift your weight about.

There is one theater which is an exception to the rule but its seats are still terrible.

The problem isn't the delivery format. BluRay is more than adequate. It has 7+ channels of uncompressed audio. The problem is in the speakers. The picture is pretty good, has more resolution than a 16mm print.

Since indie films often make it to DVD pretty fast if they're running in limited theaters there is little incentive to spend more money for a lousy viewing experience which reduced the film's quality.

 

[David Rasberry]

Nothing wrong with Blu-Ray at all. The best alternate theaters where I live are performing arts centers that stage live productions and music events as well as show indie film programs or other events like the Live at the Met series. Good seats and good sound typically, but the projection is mediocre as they really can't afford digital cinema class projectors, though that is changing. I've installed very good theaters at some of the local universities. But the major chain multiplexes and the one local independently owned multiplex all show the same top 10 or so current major releases. 50 or more screens running the same movies, often on multiple screens. No foreign films and no indie films that don't get major widespread distribution.
One of the most entertaining programs I have seen in the last year or so was a collection of award winning shorts shown at the local performing arts venue.
I understand what you say about the quality at small houses that are mostly started and run on a shoestring budget. But there are a lot of films out there that you will never rent on DVD because they don't get theatrical distribution and most people will not ever be aware they exist.
There is a lot of worthless B grade crap, but also some very compelling and artful entertainment too, just not mainstream enough in style or content to make the extremely limited theatrical distribution cut.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Nothing wrong with Blu-Ray at all. The best alternate theaters where I live are performing arts centers that stage live productions and music events as well as show indie film programs or other events like the Live at the Met series. Good seats and good sound typically, but the projection is mediocre as they really can't afford digital cinema class projectors, though that is changing. I've installed very good theaters at some of the local universities. But the major chain multiplexes and the one local independently owned multiplex all show the same top 10 or so current major releases. 50 or more screens running the same movies, often on multiple screens. No foreign films and no indie films that don't get major widespread distribution.
One of the most entertaining programs I have seen in the last year or so was a collection of award winning shorts shown at the local performing arts venue.
I understand what you say about the quality at small houses that are mostly started and run on a shoestring budget. But there are a lot of films out there that you will never rent on DVD because they don't get theatrical distribution and most people will not ever be aware they exist.
There is a lot of worthless B grade crap, but also some very compelling and artful entertainment too, just not mainstream enough in style or content to make the extremely limited theatrical distribution cut.

Here in Montreal we have Cinema Du Parc - not horrible but not great either - certainly my home projection system in 1080p is far better. BUT - lots of people do go, it is a collective experience. Afterwards you often run into friends. I've discovered many quirky films there, and had many interesting chats about them afterwards.

 

[Obin Olson]

had to jump in.

Here is a TOTAL solution:

pre sales in a vast quantity.

Don't make product unless you get PAID BY THE CONSUMER UP FRONT!

think about that for a moment. it makes TOTAL sense.

 

[Obin Olson]

as a matter of fact get Hollywood to adopt a transparent system of showing the "pitches" and letting the USERS decide on what gets made via MASS voting of the content.

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

had to jump in.

Here is a TOTAL solution:

pre sales in a vast quantity.

Don't make product unless you get PAID BY THE CONSUMER UP FRONT!

think about that for a moment. it makes TOTAL sense.

What if the movie sucks? :blush:

 

[Brandon Kraemer]

had to jump in.

Here is a TOTAL solution:

pre sales in a vast quantity.

Don't make product unless you get PAID BY THE CONSUMER UP FRONT!

think about that for a moment. it makes TOTAL sense.

That might work if your Radiohead, or Martin Scorsese...

...but if your just starting out, no one is going to pre-buy what you haven't proven you can do. For that you will be limited to spending your own coin and using the internet as your wide open distribution network.

Maybe it does make some sense... but it will damage overall sales and likely damage opportunities for new artists in the interim. In this short attention span culture, people on a vast scale are not going to spend money then sit around and wait for a product to be developed for months.

 

[conrad gaunt]

What's wrong with Blu-Ray?

The problem with "Art-House Theater" is they suck. Hard.

We have 4 art-house theaters in Seattle. Every single one of them is a balance between how badly I want to see the movie and how bad I want my back to hurt the next day.

The sound is usually worse than home. The theater is usually empty so I'm not getting the "Audience experience". The picture quality is comparable to home. Tickets cost as much as buying a Blu-ray or twice as much as an HD-DVD and the food is mediocre. And the aforementioned seats which are akin to sitting on a park bench for 3 hours without being able to get up and shift your weight about.

There is one theater which is an exception to the rule but its seats are still terrible.

The problem isn't the delivery format. BluRay is more than adequate. It has 7+ channels of uncompressed audio. The problem is in the speakers. The picture is pretty good, has more resolution than a 16mm print.

Since indie films often make it to DVD pretty fast if they're running in limited theaters there is little incentive to spend more money for a lousy viewing experience which reduced the film's quality.

If you want a bad cinema experience just go to the Bradford Media Museum and try and watch Avatar on the IMAX. Actually, most cinemas in the UK deliver a similar experience (not all, just most)

Leg length when folded 16" inches, distance from back of chair in front, 8.5" inches. Brilliant, huge screen, and a deep vein thrombosis and I'm touching the woman in fronts head with my knees.

Lesson learnt, if you don't care about my comfort, you don't care about me. Big screen and sound should go hand in hand with the basics. Entertainment value, a big fat zero. My friends daughter enjoyed it, but she's ten.

I'll stick to illegal cinema/drinking billets in future.. oh yeah, and if I wanted a half hour run of adverts I can't skip, when I rent a DVD, I'd just watch TV. And the anti-piracy adverts.. total crap..

I figure most of the film based entertainment industry doesn't have a clue really, just for ten year olds.

My father tells me in Belgium they have sofas in many cinemas.. wow, I bet you can smoke too..

 

[Stephen Matthews]

I shouldn't have resulted to ad hominem, and for that I am sorry.

On the side of Radiohead being started by a label another example is okay go. Okay go used youtube and a viral marketing campaign to make them a huge success getting them on tv and even at the much awards or something, either way they launched their career.

I don't know it may not work industry wide but I sure as hell am planning on using different methods of promotion and distribution. The film/television industry as a whole is over bloated and needs to cut a large portion of fat (like many other industries).

I'm reminded of a quote from Robert Rodregez, "you don't put on weight to run a marathon you cut the fat" (paraphrased can't remember the exact quote).

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Sure maybe in some distant future the indie producer will be able to make films with little to no upfront cost and then somehow sell his/her product on the internet directly to viewers but in the meantime (until that all works itself out) our dicks are blowing in the wind...just saying.

Much sooner.

 

[David Rasberry]

I understand your viewpoint Rob and for the most part agree with you. Theft of intellectual property of all kinds is a serious worldwide problem. It is the small, original, non-mainstream films that ultimately get hurt the most by it when trying to find any kind of market. It also damages our freedom to communicate and as consumers of entertainment restricts our fair use rights too.
Within the HDCP digital rights management model used for HD content protection, the producer has wide latitude to deny or allow fair use like backing up to a server or creating backup copies, or even live viewing privileges . We have wrestled with HDCP issues when connecting cable/satellite boxes to a multi-window multi-screen emergency ops command and control system. If our windowing processor does not properly support HDCP, some content can't even be displayed off air. I have seen the local TV channel weather and news window disappear as soon as a live HD sports event comes on.
The ultimate answer to this problem unfortunately is a better educated, less impoverished and more moral world civilization where the contributions of artists and content creators are better respected.

Obin, regarding your up front payment model, I think this is an approach that could be taken by some of the new web series creators. Tease the audience with a pilot episode for free then make it clear if you want to see more the subscription bucks have to be there to continue production.
At least with new creative tools like RED and even the new gen VDSLR's, out of pocket production costs other than time can be reduced a bit unless you need a lot of SFX work.

 

[Joe G.]

I just want to respond to this attitude that the government should have all our internet connections under constant surveillance in case we're being naughty.

It's unconstitutional.

They do it anyway (they just scream "terror" and it's all ignored), which means the government violates the laws of the land here in the USA.

This is one of the most important precedents that dwarfs any conversation about "entertainment."

Read your Orwell. It's very entertaining.

 

[David Rasberry]

I just want to respond to this attitude that the government should have all our internet connections under constant surveillance in case we're being naughty.

It's unconstitutional.

They do it anyway (they just scream "terror" and it's all ignored), which means the government violates the laws of the land here in the USA.

This is one of the most important precedents that dwarfs any conversation about "entertainment."

Read your Orwell. It's very entertaining.

Amen. We should badger our congressional representatives to repeal the patriot act as soon as possible and require the constitutionally mandated requirement for search warrants issued by a judge be honored.

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

I just want to respond to this attitude that the government should have all our internet connections under constant surveillance in case we're being naughty.

It's unconstitutional.

They do it anyway (they just scream "terror" and it's all ignored), which means the government violates the laws of the land here in the USA.

This is one of the most important precedents that dwarfs any conversation about "entertainment."

Read your Orwell. It's very entertaining.

This seems to be a global problem. The Internet is a new thing and creates a whole new set of relations within a society. And brand new ways to abuse power.

We have a new government here (a better one, I hope), but they shocked us recently by trying to give the police and secret services unlimited capability to spy on whoever they like and whenever they like. Fortunately, a serious protest followed and the law was stopped. Seems that the democratic spirit of our people is slowly waking up.

They do it anyway (they just scream "terror" and it's all ignored), which means the government violates the laws of the land here in the USA.

They do it here also and probably everywhere. Illegally, of course.

But this kind of thing can't be legalized. If unlimited and mass surveillance becomes the norm, this is Big Brother in flesh and blood. Scary stuff... :embarassed: