Support for Sony Vegas - was: there goes my POST

[killfilm]

hi, so i posted a thread titled "jim please - sony vegas" and like two days ago when the site was down, then came back up, my thread magically dissapeared into the mysterium world of Sony posts. the:shifty: thread was starting to get cool too....

 

[Damien Molineaux]

You mean your thread. I remember seeing it, not being a Vegas user, I didn't read it though, but I did wonder why it wasn't in the 4K workflow section ;-)
Odd it dissappeared in any case.

Cheers,
Damien

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Everything that transpired over the couple days before the crash was lost -- not just your post. Even private messages.

As for the request for support in Sony Vegas, it's more a question of getting Sony Vegas to support RED. Perhaps if enough people call, email or write the Vegas development team, they will get the hint.

 

[jbeale]

Actually, all posts, and all threads started after some point on Oct. 15th disappeared when the site was restored. Some database glitch I assume.

You're not the only one asking for Vegas to support Red; there is a current thread on the Sony Vegas user forum titled "Vegas support for RED One files please"
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=555638&Replies=16

If you want to suggest something that Vegas should have, Sony has a web page for suggestions here:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/support/productsuggestion.asp

 

[I Bloom]

hi, so i posted a thread titled "jim please - sony vegas" and like two days ago when the site was down, then came back up, my thread magically dissapeared into the mysterium world of Sony posts. the:shifty: thread was starting to get cool too....

I believe Reduser.net had a harddrive failure Saturday morning and many threads got lost. Don't take it personally.

Ibloom

 

[Kyle Mallory]

killfilm,

Based on my experience so far, and without any word to the contrary from RED, indicators suggest that even if Sony did inquire about native support for REDCODE RAW, that it wouldn't happen. It seems Apple, and the guys at Assimilate have exclusive agreements in place. I'd love to be proven wrong... Jim, Ted?

 

[killfilm]

killfilm,

Based on my experience so far, and without any word to the contrary from RED, indicators suggest that even if Sony did inquire about native support for REDCODE RAW, that it wouldn't happen. It seems Apple, and the guys at Assimilate have exclusive agreements in place. I'd love to be proven wrong... Jim, Ted?

that is EXACTLY what i've been thinking, someone did mention that ANY quicktime capable app should be able to handle it, so far, from reading like hundreds of posts, it seems that apple has the most extensive support. And its obvious from seeing apples name on the red site under the companies list.

i would think for someone to spend about $33,000 on a RED CAM that we can get a simple answer as to the support........

 

[Kevin Halverson]

I am pretty certain that there isn't any exclusivity, rather, this is where they started and support for other NLEs will follow once that RED gets out from under the heavy work load that they are currently experiencing. They have said numerous times that they intend to support the "Three A's"; Adobe, Apple & Avid.

Give em some time.

 

[Kevin Lang]

hi, so i posted a thread titled "jim please - sony vegas" and like two days ago when the site was down, then came back up, my thread magically dissapeared into the mysterium world of Sony posts. the:shifty: thread was starting to get cool too....

Its cool man I dont think it was on purpose I got knocked back to a jr member again from the crash.

 

[Kyle Mallory]

I am pretty certain that there isn't any exclusivity, rather, this is where they started and support for other NLEs will follow once that RED gets out from under the heavy work load that they are currently experiencing. They have said numerous times that they intend to support the "Three A's"; Adobe, Apple & Avid.

Give em some time.

I hope your right... But, I've heard the "exclusive" rumor from numerous people including one software company that expressed interest in supporting REDCODE native. While I don't doubt that RED is busy, they have time and cause to frequent and comment on these forums in a number of topics, yet any discussion of exclusivity with regard to Apple or Assimilate is left deafeningly silent.

 

[killfilm]

no problems on the server crash situation, it actually failed like 5minutes after my post, so i was weirded out, anyways,

it just gets frustrating sometimes getting answers on support features,
some of us need to build systems around their software, others are investing in raids, external drives, etc.

i do hope like many others that support for the three "A"'s will have "balance" to them.

i officially gave up on Sony Vegas except for its 24p dv support which was offered by sonic foundry anyways and not sony.

we cant even get panny MXF support in sony vegas for crying out loud,
good luck on RED ONE file support:angry03:

for more serious RED projects, the Adobe suite will be sweet.

 

[donatello b]

Raylight & P2 works very good in Vegas ...
when was the last time you asked sony media division in Madison, WI for RED raw support ? ... it all comes down to numbers .. i've put in my request for RED support - the last i knew there had been 2 request so it's not going to happen unless they get some decent numbers requesting it ... also RED probably is not going to release much info on the inner workings of RED raw till they have it locked down??

 

[killfilm]

donatello, do you know how many people requested panny MXF support in
vegas?

 

[Michael Schrengohst]

I think it is a Sony thing. Why would Sony want to support
DVCPRO (Panasonic) and Redcode (RED)?
Sony wants to sell you a Sony camera.
Those work great with Vegas. I use Vegas to do
some WMV things but have switched to FCP
because that is where the action is. Learn it and
love it. All the agencies I do work for use FCP.
I one corporate client I have used Vegas but
wanted to edit P2 and switched to FCP.

 

[laguun]

FCP is a nice product, i own a copy as well.
however, there are many limits in any package.

for red the main one would be that fcp is 2k, not 4k and 8 bit rgb, not 12 bit. adobe ppro is 4K 16bit.

there is no one size fits it all, and i can´t confirm that most experienced directors/editors/producers here would prefer fcp or premiere over discreet smoke/avid nitris/quantel iQ-eQ-pablo etc.

however i really hope that apple will solve the resolution and bitdepth issues in FCS in one of the next release (or even patches) and it will be used here with red quite a bit then.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

killfilm,

Based on my experience so far, and without any word to the contrary from RED, indicators suggest that even if Sony did inquire about native support for REDCODE RAW, that it wouldn't happen. It seems Apple, and the guys at Assimilate have exclusive agreements in place. I'd love to be proven wrong... Jim, Ted?

I can't say for sure one way or another, but I seriously doubt this. Jim has said just recently that they are talking to a few companies about REDCODE support. I've seen comments from a few RED team members regarding support in third party software, usually saying things like "all they have to do is contact us".

But I'm just speculating on that, obviously. However, assuming RED is totally open on working with companies in supporting REDCODE, I doubt Sony would be interested. Just look at their track record on supported formats. Vegas Pro 8 only supports a handful of consumer/prosumer formats and XDCAM with some common image sequnce (TIFF, TARGA) options. ...They don't even bother to support OP-Atom / standard MXF containers, only the bastardized Sony XDCAM MXF format and they have no support for other widely used codecs from other manufacturers like DVCPRO[HD].

I should also add that Sony doesn't even support their own HDCAM formats within Vegas. Vegas is just a "prosumer" application to them.

 

[GlennChan]

I hope your right... But, I've heard the "exclusive" rumor from numerous people including one software company that expressed interest in supporting REDCODE native.

Seriously... these rumours are silly / misleading.

A- The Quicktime reference files can be read by applications that support Quicktime... which is a lot of the products out on the market.
B- The point of Redcine is to convert the footage into a standard or compatible format... this is hardly exclusive.
The Red team has stated that they want a workflow to exist with this camera... which means it isn't tied down to any particular systems.

2- Vegas should support reading the Quicktime reference files. (Although I don't think the red team necessarily guarantees this / is commiting to it at this point. But I would really expect it to be there.)

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=749

And see my post and Rob's reply in this thread:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2452

3- Where Vegas might need to step up its game is:
--Import 10+-bit formats without throwing away the extra bit depth. e.g. DPX, cineform, openEXR
--(CMX-style) EDL import, with support for reading reel + timecode metadata, and the ability to conform from data files. Ability to conform from tape/SDI would be nice too for non-Red workflows.
*This depends on how Redcine works and how the Quicktime reference files work.

 

[Elizabeth Lowrey]

3- Where Vegas might need to step up its game is:
--Import 10+-bit formats without throwing away the extra bit depth. e.g. DPX, cineform, openEXR
--(CMX-style) EDL import, with support for reading reel + timecode metadata, and the ability to conform from data files. Ability to conform from tape/SDI would be nice too for non-Red workflows.
*This depends on how Redcine works and how the Quicktime reference files work.

GlennChan, glad you revived your thread after the crash as I'm a Vegas (7) user and future RED owner.

Unless I'm mistaken, Vegas 8 still has maximum resolution support of 2K x 2K. To me that means that if you are shooting 4K, you would never be able to do more than proxy or offline editing in Vegas anyway. You would never be able to finish a 4K edit in Vegas (quite apart from native codec support issues.) Someone correct me if I'm mistaken in that understanding.

 

[Damien Molineaux]

It's been stated many times, RedCine would allow you to export to any codec installed on your machine. So if you're running Red Cine on windows and run Vegas, you should be able to export to a compatible codec. You do your edit and then you export your edl, which if standard, we all hope Red Cine will accept for a conform.

As to Red Raw support within Vegas, given Red is willing to give the Red Raw framework (at least that's what they've stated), it's up to Sony, and any other software manufacturer to implement the support. It is in Red's interest that as many softwares as possible become compatible.

Cheers,
Damien

 

[donatello b]

"it's up to Sony, and any other software manufacturer to implement the support"

and without users asking sony & other NLE's companys to support native RED raw it's not going to happen ....

"do you know how many people requested panny MXF support in
vegas?"

when HVX 1st came out - i knew the # and i was very suprised by that low # ..
back then if you looked around on different forums it was the same persons complaining about no native support ... panasonic wasn't giving out the details of the inner workings of their DVCpro HD codec for free so one would either pay up or do a little reverse engineering ... if you want P2 to play/edit in Vegas = install raylight - drop clip in TL and it plays/edits RT = no converting to another codec ... perhaps a 3rd party will come up with a RED raw solution if Vegas doesn't support native RED raw ??? bottom line for any NLE - are there enough end users wanting that feature ....

awhile back there was a poll taken on what NLE RED users were planning to use - i don't recall the results but Vegas was a choice .. lets find the results to see the #, i think we'll find the real #'s were FCP & Avid ... IMO Avid is going to have to come up with some kind of support ... and remember it all takes time ( example- RED announced FCP2 support and had working demo at NAB 07 .. that's with RED & FCP working together and to date i have not seen/heard of that FCP version released to the public )