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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

super scarlet

Guys, I think we have to look at this from a wider lens, historically speaking. Let's take it back to 2007, when I was lurking the DVXuser forums, back when REDuser was just a subsection on DVXuser....

How quickly we forget - the DVX100A mod called Andromeda.

The Andromeda system allows recording of 4:4:4 (Full RGB) Uncompressed digital video from your Panasonic DVX-100P/AP/B. Bypassing the in-camera processing, the Andromeda system utilizes the full 12-bit color precision available inside the camera, and yields additional dynamic range, particularly on the highlights. The dynamic range gains have been measured to yield a total of approximately 9.5 stops latitude, which is about a 2.5 stop improvement over the standard DV output.

A feature seen only on the highest-end systems, Andromeda allows the user to completely define the RGB curves(LUTs) for recording the uncompressed data directly from the camera's Analog-to-Digital converters.

The Andromeda system also records all active pixels, including areas of the CCD's normally cut-off by the internal camera processing, giving the user access to more pixels and a wider 1.85:1 image when the anamorphic adapter is used. By making use of the sub-pixel shift inherent in the 3CCD imager, the Andromeda system is capable of targetting uncompressed output frame sizes up to 1540x984 in 24P mode without up-rezzing.


source: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/alternative-imaging-methods/56251-andromeda-dvx-100-pre-orders-now-available.html

And that was from a Mini-DV camera, 7 years ago.

The scarlet is the same tech as the EPIC, but is essentially comprised of hardware that "didn't make the cut". The Scarlet can shoot 5K at 24 frames, that's a guarantee. Whether or not it can do it sustainably, or whether or not the cameras have been intentionally handicapped is another question altogether.

People saying otherwise are akin to the naysayers of the Wright Brothers.

I don't know about you guys but I fly on a lot of planes these days.
 
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Sascha Rossier said:
he he he ... liquid cooling ... and some of those fancy dark-blue LED-mods ;-)

But to be honest ... those high framerates are overused already ... every youtube-search with the keyword "epic" returns countless "i-don't-have-a-story-to-tell-but-some-cool-slomo-shots-to-show-off"-Movies - it feels like back in the days when the first affordable Lexicon-Reverbs entered the Musicbusiness ... all the Songs we're drowned in Reverb. These people should carefully watch movies like Legend of the Guardians or Matrix to see how slomo i used wisely to tell the story. Lets hand over the rest of the slomo-fetish to the sports-broadcasters.
Considering this, I'm all cool with my Scarlet @ 24fps ;-)

And after all: Slomo that seperates the boys from the men comes out of a Phantom Flex or a Weisscam HS2 anyway ;-)
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Well put! For slomo I would rent a Phantom. I would buy an Epic just because of the 5k.
 
Truth is cameras, computers, GPS's, cars, you name it, have been intentionally nobbled for decades in the interests of financial /military/ socio-political expediency and /or interests. Theres some big dialogues going on out there. We dont need to leap to a psuedo conspiratorial conclusion (though i do love a good conspiracy!) to explain anything in tech land. As with the gentleman above referring to the 'Andromeda'....Ive heard a whole bunch of demonstrable and anecdotal stuff along those lines..maybe theyre simply premmy chronological oversights (they usually end up downgraded/modified to fall into the current tech vernacular subsequently) Often things need to be choked because companies constantly exchange info relating to R and D expenditures and controlled use related to price point blah blah blah..But Its usually as simple as ." we can make more money out of this if we drip feed" and usually its true.. cause even the most aware and erudite of us are at least a little bit hooked. And the market is a carefully controlled entity that needs a firm vigilant hand to maintain an aquiescent audience of simultaneously and constantly spending participants. As well as making sure they are constantly poised for the 'next thing'. A circus of which Jarrod et al and RED are masters of for sure! Having raved all that..I for one think that given the price point and the pictures im getting out of it, little scarlet is a serious piece of kit, and we all sort of know that there will be upgrades ..maybe even significant ones. And i bet you could 'overclock' her. Nothing surer. I couldnt do it, cause ..well..im not smart enough. But we all know theres some serious tech in there and capped or not .. I, we all like to think of future potential, but the true beauty of any tech lies in making the most of it where and how it is right NOW. And right now that little box is punching out a melody of 4k beauty that fills me full of glee . Personally I dont need anything more right now. except maybe a slightly faster computer.. I bet its just around the corner!
 
listen to the guys who joined before 2011... red is not a scam.

scarlet has less hardware and hand-me-downs that didn't make the cut for the extreme data throughput of the epic. it saves them more money to be able to do that than it does to have a completely separate system, so it was a good decision for business and cross-compatibility. everything fit together, simple as that.
 
Paul, that's the most logical post in this thread so far, the question is, who has an almost-Epic Scarlet and who has a barely-a-Scarlet Scarlet? that's what makes the discussion interesting...

folks were quite disgusted when they tested the Red One a few years back. a macbeth color chart looked entirely different across different cameras--sensor quality control was just not there. Canon and Nikon quality control is similarly off--a lens can be tack sharp on one body and miserably soft on another, because of a few mm difference on the lens and body mounts.

the question with Red's economical, re-used Epic parts plan--where is the line for inacceptable? do I have more noise and inferior color reproduction just because my sensor barely made the cut? is Paul's Scarlet capable of 60fps at 5K whereas Felipe's will be barely capable of 12fps at 5K?

I expose with an even histogram, blackshading and even when I rate 800 exposure down to 320, noise all over the footage.. forget super scarlet, I'd like a standardized one... Scarlets from different rental houses / production batches should match for multi-cam shoots, 3D work etc.
 
Arnold F. said:
Isn't 99.9% of everything being shot around the world as I type this "indie?". There must be 500 things being shot this second. Are the handful of major studios Paying for all of them? No, maybe 5 of them.
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maybe if you count cat videos on youtube and mobile phone video...

Broadcast and Cable TV, educational, scientific military and marketing stuff, and industry QC videos are a big % of what's shot :) indie ... smaller

Felipe Leite said:
Well put! For slomo I would rent a Phantom. I would buy an Epic just because of the 5k.
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honestly, i generally hate how color looks on the Phantom, and its a bitch of a camera to work with. no experience with Wiesscam, but in the last Zacuto test shoot both cameras looked kind of "sad" color-wise when compared to the other higher caliber cameras on the shoot. almost as if colors aren't the most important thing for their sensors. i think for most uses, Epic is perfect for slomo, 150-300 fps is generally more than enough. and less compromise on image quality


as for overclocking a scarlet... it will happen, if the camera becomes very popular. DVX100, 5D/7D, GH2, all hacked, all VERY popular cameras.
thing is, in these cameras, the models are very standardized. and a hacker in Moscow (sorry russia) who tested his hack and his cam didn't go up in flames, is a sure enough sign yours won't burn either.

if comments like this are in any way the truth ... (which i have no idea about, and sounds quite outrageous and improbable)
Ryan De Franco said:
the question with Red's economical, re-used Epic parts plan--where is the line for inacceptable? do I have more noise and inferior color reproduction just because my sensor barely made the cut? is Paul's Scarlet capable of 60fps at 5K whereas Felipe's will be barely capable of 12fps at 5K?
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then a hack could work well for one, and send the next three cameras to processor heaven.

i wouldn't try it.

or would...

if it was ridiculously amazing...

and didn't burn out a single cam


interesting concept Nik... you should right stuff down when in hangover :) Eplet... lol
 
Ryan De Franco said:
Paul, that's the most logical post in this thread so far, the question is, who has an almost-Epic Scarlet and who has a barely-a-Scarlet Scarlet? that's what makes the discussion interesting...

folks were quite disgusted when they tested the Red One a few years back. a macbeth color chart looked entirely different across different cameras--sensor quality control was just not there. Canon and Nikon quality control is similarly off--a lens can be tack sharp on one body and miserably soft on another, because of a few mm difference on the lens and body mounts.

the question with Red's economical, re-used Epic parts plan--where is the line for inacceptable? do I have more noise and inferior color reproduction just because my sensor barely made the cut? is Paul's Scarlet capable of 60fps at 5K whereas Felipe's will be barely capable of 12fps at 5K?

I expose with an even histogram, blackshading and even when I rate 800 exposure down to 320, noise all over the footage.. forget super scarlet, I'd like a standardized one... Scarlets from different rental houses / production batches should match for multi-cam shoots, 3D work etc.
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there are two different questions there.

the first is about framerates, and that's simple: scarlet doesn't have the extra physical processing board.

the second is about quality control as it pertains to everything 'image': here you have a few options - 1. test and compare with the community, 2. trust red's QC checks, 3. don't worry about it unless you see glaring issues - i recommend a healthy mixed drink. if you think you're having problems with your particular camera, speak to your bomb squad rep and he'll help you sort it out.

it is extremely difficult to compare red to panasonic/jvc/canon/sony/etc - the big firmware hacks like andromeda and magic lantern give access to 'hidden' information coming off the sensor - with r3d's you're really getting all you can. the only way you could potentially get anything different (notice i didn't say better) would be to create an alternative to r3d formatting, but i don't think you'll find much success. now, as far as camera features and the like there is a lot of room for improvement still - the good new is, all you have to do is come up with a good idea and it gets implemented, albeit in time. red genuinely loves their products and customers, and they have always listened to our requests very patiently and implemented a lot of them - it has always been a collaborative effort.

i'm all for a little hacking when cameras are being purposefully limited by firmware, but that is totally against red's philosophy. i'm not telling anybody what they can or cannot experiment with, but i honestly believe your time would be better spent doing almost anything else in this instance.
 
between color science updates and sensor upgrades, getting "more" from the camera illicitly is the last thing on my mind. I just find the quality control debate interesting when you've got a camera that's specifically designed to make use of parts that didn't pass Epic QC.

it's not a problem I believe I have with my camera, frankly I like the noise, just sometimes it's there in spades and sometimes it isn't, with markedly similar exposures / histograms. between that and knowing (from Jim) that some sensors and boards make the epic grade, while those that don't become Scarlets... I'm curious about variance, tolerances in general.

your suggest to test within the community is a good one--put a couple Scarlets together from rental houses and friends, shoot a color chart, see what we get.
 
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