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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Subtle bugs in redcine

If the Scratch is Ferrary of DI who are the Ford, Fiat, Toyota of the CG/conforming world?

I see a good possibility here for Assimilate.
There is market what never will buy a Scratch an will hire high end studios for grading.
Even the result will rarely printed on film.
But there is a need for realtime CG/conform solution with native Red files reading, secondaries, masks, pro monitoring etc.

Lets limit the output to 10-bit linear only, the input to *.r3d
and sell it for $10K.

Priit

Even Ferrary has several models to satisfy different needs.
 
10bit linear is sucky. Surely you mean 10bit log or video gamma?
 
mmost said:
Right. And maybe Ferrari can make a limited and cheaper version that only has a 5 gallon gas tank. Or maybe Gulfstream can make a limited and cheaper business jet that only has a 1000 mile range. Or perhaps Apple can make a limited and cheaper iPhone that only allows local calls, for the maybe 200 people who might actually want that.

Geez, guys, get off of the "we want cheap stuff across the board regardless of the product, the company, their business plan, or their user base." If you can't afford something, it doesn't mean the company that sells it is obligated to lower its prices so that you can. It does mean that you either go to a supplier that has it, or you find another way to do it. Simple.
Click to expand...

I am with mmost on this 100%.

Don't know what you guys are worried about - RED will have "hacked" and "open source" tools than any camera in history. Lord knows what Stu M. is already coding!!

And I'll be the first to say "I told you so" in a year or two when Adobe buys Assimilate for a PILE of money and bundles Scratch with the Adobe suite - heheheeheheh
 
Graeme Nattress said:
10bit linear is sucky. Surely you mean 10bit log or video gamma?
Click to expand...

I meant linear.
For sure 50% of production shooted with Red never will be printed on film.

By the way we are in process of buying Scratch right now.
BUT (very big BUT) I know one "bittorrent" Scratch operating less than 1km from our company.
Should I call a police?

Priit
 
I'm sorry, but I don't think you mean linear.

Graeme
 
priitp said:
I meant linear.
For sure 50% of production shooted with Red never will be printed on film.
Click to expand...

Terminology police: You don't really mean linear. You mean video gamma.

I would say that it's more like 90-95%, at least until studios approve it and things other than indie projects start using it on a more regular basis.

However - if you don't need to finish in anything other than SD and HD video, you already have all the tools you need. Conforming and finishing in higher resolutions is a very niche market, and will likely remain so - which is a primary reason that the tools to do so cost what they do. That niche is projects with reasonable budgets that go through theatrical distribution channels, because there is currently no way to distribute anything beyond HD video on anything other than a theater screen. And there won't be for quite some time. Now, I suppose there is also the group that wants theatrical distribution eventually, but cannot afford to create a print at this point in time. But they want to see and color correct in a projection environment "just in case" they get a distribution deal. For those projects, existing facilities can and do go through a basic DI process and create the HD video deliverables, but save the film files for later recording and printing.
 
offhollywood said:
I am with mmost on this 100%.

Don't know what you guys are worried about - RED will have "hacked" and "open source" tools than any camera in history. Lord knows what Stu M. is already coding!!

And I'll be the first to say "I told you so" in a year or two when Adobe buys Assimilate for a PILE of money and bundles Scratch with the Adobe suite - heheheeheheh
Click to expand...

I am with both of you guys on this.

Will any other company have access to r3d files before that happens?

David
 
priitp said:
If the Scratch is Ferrary of DI who are the Ford, Fiat, Toyota of the CG/conforming world?

I see a good possibility here for Assimilate. There is market what never will buy a Scratch an will hire high end studios for grading. Even the result will rarely printed on film. But there is a need for realtime CG/conform solution with native Red files reading, secondaries, masks, pro monitoring etc.

Lets limit the output to 10-bit linear only, the input to *.r3d
and sell it for $10K.
Click to expand...

Priit,

I do appreciate your enthusiasm for SCRATCH. But, consider these things:

1) In a conform for a final picture, there will be very few projects that will be 100% RED. Just like there are very few features that in the conform and finish stage are 100% DPX. There are *always* things like visual effects and other elements that come in from disparate vendors that must be incorporated into the final.

2) To be honest - the bar for selling a low-price product is not 10K. It is about 2K. For a lot of people, affording a 10K piece of software is as unreachable as affording a 100K piece of software. And those people are the target market for your "low cost Ferrari." For that market, we would have to sell software for about 2K. And then, we would have to sell anywhere from 10 - 30 times more software to make the same amount of money. Not more money, but the same amount of money. But for that same amount of money, we would have to drastically increase our support, fullfillment, AR, AP, and other infrastructure costs. This is certainly not a new problem. It's a classic issue for many small companies that are faced with decisions of how to grow. This is something we have looked at a LOT (trust me on this) and selling a "low cost" version of SCRATCH that is low cost enough to really capitalize on the market just doesn't make sense.

3) We don't cripple software to sell a lower-cost model. Other manufacturers work that way. We are just philosophically opposed to doing that. In our experience, it ends up just confusing the product line and pissing off customers.

Cheers,

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
luki said:
3) We don't cripple software to sell a lower-cost model. Other manufacturers work that way. We are just philosophically opposed to doing that. In our experience, it ends up just confusing the product line and pissing off customers.

Cheers,

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
Click to expand...

AMEN!

Never cheapen a good thing. Always make it better.

I remember having to go from a full media composer to a "handcuffed" Avid when they first released MC express. By the end of day one there was a good chance of seeing the Quadra 950 fly straight out the window to a two story death.

Handcuffed software bakes!


David
 
Thanks Lukas.
I agree with you.

The only difference is if there is adittional market what will not "eat" your main market and where the business will be profitable.

Red will be bought by far more users than only film people.
We see our Red usage for commercials and music videos what will end up in PAL and will be archived the footage and workflow projects for possible future use.
At the current we get material from telecine, Sony 900/750 or cheapest from XDCam.

Of course I hope to rent our Red for some feature film also but it will be additional to our main target.
I think there will be a lot of similar shops far from Hollywood buing a Red and need for CG what is less than Scratch but better as Premiere/FCP Color/MediaComposer etc at the current incranations.

It is question about the workflow and at the moment the weakest link is CG on this market segment.

Lukas wrote:
1) In a conform for a final picture, there will be very few projects that will be 100% RED. Just like there are very few features that in the conform and finish stage are 100% DPX. There are *always* things like visual effects and other elements that come in from disparate vendors that must be incorporated into the final.

I don't mean have 100% conform. Just the material coming from RED.
For other material and FX are Combustion/Digital Fusion etc. in this price range.
We need just good companion to RED.

Priit

PS. Sorry about the linear. I meant video gamma. Just my Combustion background confuses me.
 
Thanks Priit, the linear / log / video thing is very confusing, and we've all got to be very careful to stick to correct terminology unless we all get mighty confused. Sometimes I read manuals for high end colourist software and I don't know what they're on about because they make use of very poor terminology.

Graeme
 
Graeme,

Is it my imagination or is linear light currently not an output option in REDCINE? I see linear as an option on the output page, but because it is listed with Lanczos and Mitchell, I assume it is a bilinear scaling algorithm.

If I chose custom and set to 1.0, would that give me linear?

10-bit DPX does not appear to be an option either. Not saying I want 10-bit linear DPX, just noticed 10-bit is disabled if I select DPX.
 
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