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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Student Filmmaker

adkimery said:
Since we are talking about very limited budgets, what about a really nice looking short (that is a cut down from a feature length script) vs. a poor looking feature? A nice looking, proof-of-concept short could be pedaled around to investors in hopes of raising money to shoot the feature on a bigger budget.


-A
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In fairness to Shawn the short as a learning tool, or a calling card, he's right they are worth the time.

In your context Adkimery, to use it as a tool to move the project to the next level. I would highly recommend that you do so, keep it short, more like a trailer than a 10 min visual synopsis. That's what I did with Eddie's Night Out. I spent about 1300.00 to do the trailer, and it got me 50,000. A month later I was shoot my first feature.

I'm a jump in the deep end guy, I had over 15 years experience before I shot Eddies. Those first couple days, I was aware of what I was doing, but it felt like I was watching myself do it. It was intimidating, and believe me I'm not a guy who gets intimidated easily.
 
I've shot a dozen shorts over the last 5 years plus one mini feature (55 min). I feel pretty ready to do a feature, but I'm going to buckle down and do at least three more shorts to make sure that when I do a feature I can make it exceptional.
 
Tenshredd7 said:
I have made less than a dozen shorts, but about every one is five minutes or more, My script is done, and i have a casting call for actors in january, then i plan on rehersing for a few months along side with my location scouting. I have a storyboard, a very rough story board that doesnt corospond to my locations, that i want to complete as soon as i get my locations set. I also am now toying with the idea fo doing shorts instead to get me into college, rather than liek 7 shorts and a feature. But what shuold i do about lights? i want to shoot more than a basic 3point set up, but dont want to spend a ton of money on it. Any ideas? Thanks.
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Nathan

The key to making your decision, it to reverse budget your film. Whatever money you have to make your film. Cut it in half 50% goes to post, 50% goes to shooting.

Look at the math, the 50% you have for post-production has to include your your media kit, as well as promotional items for the festival . These materials are important, they got to be on par with your competition if you want to make an impact.

Than look at what's left, do you have what it takes to do what you want to do. The more locations the more money it takes. I shot Eddies in San Diego at the old Wonder bread factory. I had allot of exteriors, all of it was shot within 5 blocks, and that was a big challenge. San Diego is great for that kind of shooting.

Your young, you have time on your side.
 
Hi Folks,

I'm not trying to piss on anyone elses experience here but the idea that you can't make money from a short is well past it's sell-by-date.

There is a film maker who made a short about Jewish boy friends - or something like that - she has it downloadable from iTunes - she's made a lot of money at 20 cents a pop.

I'm sorry I don't have the link any more but internet marketing of shorts is a viable biz plan now. Nokia will also pay for 3 minute shorts that are 'entertaining' in some way.

Also check out this link:

http://www.internetmarketingforfilmmakers.com/

This is ideal for shorts because it's still quite hard to download a 90min feature.

NOW, I agree that if you are going the feature route there are more traditional distribution routes open to you. And I have been down the withoutabox FF submission route with reasonable success; but that is still not certain. Many times you won't even get a screening.

My point is that now there are multiple ways you can get revenue for your product - even if it's 'only' a short. Check out iTunes?

All the best, Phil
 
Tenshredd7 said:
But what shuold i do about lights? i want to shoot more than a basic 3point set up, but dont want to spend a ton of money on it. Any ideas? Thanks.
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Be resourceful..
You dont need mole, arri, k5600... so on...
I have lit some awesome sets with a common home depot lighting system..
China Balls are a cheap favorite that are used professionally.. they might not be your typical pier one import china balls, but they are basically the same:)
 
Phil,

How would I go about selling a short to itunes? Do you think that it would be possible to make a short that would generate enough revenue to shoot a feature? Also, what kind of lights from home depot would be ideal for lighting a scene, or where and what are china balls? The balls you see in a oriental movie made of paper machee? What would be a good type of material I could rig up to bounce the light?
 
Short Films and iTunes

Short Films and iTunes

Hi Nathan (and anyone else with a short film),

If you go to this link -

http://www.apple.com/uk/itunes/contentproviders/faq.html

or poke around on the iTunes WEB site like have for 5mins you should be able to figure it out. Rememer you are a 'content provider' in their terms.

I should say I have not made a short, so I don't have direct experience but I know that other people are getting a revenue stream going from iTunes. How much that's worth and whether that would pay for a feature; is beyond (even) my (considerable) psychic powers to predict (he added modestly).

What I can predict (if my experience is anything to go by) is the sheer bloody minded effort and application you are going to need to get ANYWHERE in the film biz - as I am discovering with my own attempts at distribution.

First think of something really hard - like walking to the South Pole and back from where you live - we'll call that one unit of effort - then think of a really large number - no not that one! a really BIG number like 99 raised to the power of 10000000000000000000000000000000.

Then multiply that by the number of times anyone has ever said "No" to you. Remember to include all those women - that's a lot right? Then divide that by 0.00000000000000000000000000000000001
Now you end up with the number of effort units required to get to first base - congratulations!

First thing I'd do is sign on to withoutabox: http://www.withoutabox.com/

You will need to submit your short to many festivals to have any chance of getting a screening - let alone 2 awards like I have for my latest feature (he boasted). The only point of getting an award (apart from walking around like a self absorbed, grinning twat for two months) is that you can promote your film as being 'award winning' and for some reason . . . this helps when you talk to distributors or do your own on eBay (like me).

I remember reading one of the posts on the WAB forum - the gist of which was "my overnight success came about after submitting my film to 350 Film Festivals over a period of 18 months" - at that point I had become down hearted because the first festival I submitted to (Toronto) had not even had the decency to tell me that I didn't have a screening. That's true of about 20% FF's BTW. They will publish the screening list - you go will go through it several times - skipping over catagories like "Lesbian Firsts" only to find that your project has not been accepted.

So unless you thrive on rejection - you might want to find someone who can do all of that for you - a friend or relative who cares about your project and wants to help is best.

As for your lighting questions - I fear you are asking the wrong person - I went out and purchased a basic lighting kit because I got fed up of trying to do it on the cheap. The results were dramatically better. But like Zak I have lit things with as little as $20 - although in my case the results were less than optimum - well all right then - piss poor.

Good luck with your project and remember "that a man is only as big as the dreams he dares to live" - you could thank Cam Diver for that pearl - but he's too busy pulling his legs out of a great white shark to respond at the moment.

All the best, Phil
 
Thanks Phil,

I really appreciate your time and everyone else who has been givving me great ideas. If anyone has any other ideas, or advice, please let me know. Also if anyone is going to be up in Lake Tahoe this month or the first week in January let me know. Thanks again.
 
These are all videos my friend Kyle and i have made, we work on alot of projects together. The first video is an intro to a male beauty pagaent I helped put on at my school, none of it is serious, just something fun i wanted to make, then we showed the video at my school before the pagaent (its all a HUGE joke) http://youtube.com/watch?v=n_0B-MOznvk

This video is just joking about a tv show i did at my school called VTV (viking telivision) and how it was hellish. http://youtube.com/watch?v=7VXuKgIX47I

This Last video is an intro Kyle and i made that makes fun of our AP calculus class... It speaks for its self. http://youtube.com/watchv=wyAHmIesMlk

Hope you enjoy.
 
Ditto to the Hollywood Camera work. It does an amazing job of explaining the why behind camera moves. If you would watch those DVDs repeatedly until you really know them, you'd have come a long way in knowing about framing and composition.
 
Just chiming into say that the advice given so far is all excellent. I think the old adage of "Learn by Doing" is particularly important when working on shoots.
Also, make shorts! Even if its with the family camcorder and two VCRs (This is how I first learned editing outside of in-camera). Nothing helps you learn like a long string of terrible failures. :biggrin:
As an example my company has been making shorts since we were in college. When we made our first feature (Which has 5 directors making it a sort of hybrid short film anthology but one narrative feature... confusing I know) we still have been making shorts as we worked on post, traveling to festivals and selling for distribution. And not only have we been making shorts but we've also been helping out on other people's shoots as well. We're all still learning by doing.

Just so you can see I'm not blowing smoke: http://www.randomcreatureface.com/
 
BENTrandom, how did that turn out, having a feature made up of the short films? Did you at least break even on the venture?
 
Hey Shawn,
I think it turned out surprisingly well but I might be a bit biased haha
It's a concept that really isn't used all that often so that is something to keep it unique. But, apparently, as we've learned, that also makes it difficult to market. That's mainly the reason we started selling a special edition of our DVD to keep some revenue coming in. We are in talks with a distributor but they aren't sure if they want to release it under their current label or a new subsidiary they are starting. Either way we'd break even and possibly make a decent profit off of it. Hope that convoluted answer helped.

And here's a couple of the reviews that might explain the film's story a little more:
http://www.dreadcentral.com/node/11162
http://creep.bravehost.com/reviewsummerschool.html
http://www.fatally-yours.com/horror-reviews/summer-school/
 
Well, if you mean shoot in the way of an anthology style film. Definitely, if the material works for it. It was fun to see how each different director handles their story and having them as crew on my parts helped keep the vibe of the film consistent. And I plan to keep shooting with the same core crew as long as physically possible because I now know they'll go the extra mile to get a quality product.
If you mean shoot a feature length film on weekends for a production budget of $8,000.00 on a DVX100A... not so much. It was an amazing learning experience and I wouldn't trade it for anything. But I can't see anyway I'd be able to (or really want to for such a subatomic budget) do it again since I graduated after we shot it and need to pay these pesky student loans off. That and we're always trying to up our quality and that takes a bit more money. Obviously I'm on this site because I believe the RED is part of that growth.
That's not to say if you've got limited funds as well you shouldn't get a decent camera (obviously the RED would be fantastic) , a unique script (unless you can attach a quasi-famous celeb this will be your big selling point), a dedicated crew (that will show up everyday you need them even if you can't pay. Good luck on this one), and good actors (local colleges with theater programs can find you some great people). Oh and feed people. Especially if there is no pay. That goes for features and shorts.
 
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