^&%$# Stripped Screws...

[D Namir]

Red authorized representatives around the globe

Red authorized representatives around the globe

Great response, Brent. Highly reassuring of the level of commitment RED has in customer support. This stands out in the market place as much, if not more, than having the best camera.

It is indeed. However what about such problems when the camera is not in California and can't be driven to Red.
How about having some authorized representatives around the globe, after all more than 4000 cameras were sold/.

 

[Erik Widding]

I think that the solution to this problem might be that each screw needs a very thim coating of Never Seez, or similar, on the threads. It seems that the combination of steel screw with black oxide coating and aluminum mount with black anodize treatment causes the screws to lock tight to the mount.

Don't forget to coat the screw under the head, not just the threads. Any of the times that I have had to drill out a screw, as soon as the screw head pops off, enough pressure is released that the stub of the screw can now be turned out without any tools.

Also, we have been using exclusively 18-8 stainless screws (without a black oxide finish) with black anodized aluminum, for a decade, and never had such problems with screws. I could be wrong, but I think the problem might be the binding of the two oxides, not the interaction of the stainless steel and the aluminum. Maybe using screws without a black oxide finish would help.

 

[Brent Carter]

I was told a couple months back from Red that they were going to send out Torx head screws when they got them in for the Nikon mounts. But of course that was a couple months ago. They do have a lot on their plate over at Red now-a-days. So I could see how updating the screws for the mounts might go over looked.

I have posted in a few places to email RED if you have the hex screws and want the Torx Plus. Email John Restivo at restivo - at - red - dot - com and he will take care of it at n/c. Make sure to include your shipping address, camera serial number, and if you need PL kit or Nikon kit or both.

BC

 

[Jeff Deveraux]

Don't forget to coat the screw under the head, not just the threads. Any of the times that I have had to drill out a screw, as soon as the screw head pops off, enough pressure is released that the stub of the screw can now be turned out without any tools.

Also, we have been using exclusively 18-8 stainless screws (without a black oxide finish) with black anodized aluminum, for a decade, and never had such problems with screws. I could be wrong, but I think the problem might be the binding of the two oxides, not the interaction of the stainless steel and the aluminum. Maybe using screws without a black oxide finish would help.

I agree.

What is your source for screws?

 

[Jeff Deveraux]

I have posted in a few places to email RED if you have the hex screws and want the Torx Plus. Email John Restivo at restivo - at - red - dot - com and he will take care of it at n/c. Make sure to include your shipping address, camera serial number, and if you need PL kit or Nikon kit or both.

BC

What material are the new torx screws made of?

 

[Jorge Díaz-Amador]

I'd be glad to pay extra for titanium screws.

Titanium screws gall on steel. I think they are OK on aluminum though. But they would gall on the steel PL mount. I think the current screws are seizing against the aluminum.

They are very expensive and not harder/stronger than steel, just substantially lighter and super corrosion resistant.

Alloy steel, properly heat treated, and with a good black oxide finish, is good stuff. Not as sexy but it gets the job done.

And yes, 18-8 stainless (austenitic) is good stuff too. Just not magnetic and I like how the steel screws stick to the screwdriver ;-) I also think the alloy screws are harder at the surface. I think it's because alloy steel can be case hardened and austenitic stainless steel cannot.

 

[Jorge Díaz-Amador]

How about having some authorized representatives around the globe, after all more than 4000 cameras were sold/.

I'm sure I'm not the only independent camera technician that is interested in working with the RED owners. Hopefully we can set up some sort of network. We should probably have some area on this site, a directory where the independent techs are listed, including what their experince is, and what tools and equipment they have on hand.

As for the seizing issue, I have not had a problem with black oxide coated steel screws against anodized aluminum. This is basically how an entire ARRI camera is put together. I've never had to use anti-seize either.

From the research that I did, when I was designing the parts for my PL mount conversion for the ARRI 16SR, I read that the anodize film does not form inside small threaded holes. I noticed that I did not have to give an allowance for the anodize film in the thread tolerance that I used.

*Speculation* If I'm wrong about this, and they hard coated the part, and did not allow for the tolerance on the threaded holes, then the holes themselves might be too small, hence the thread fit is too tight.

If anyone has a theory they care to share on this (and some knowledge to support it) I'd really like to hear about it.

 

[Rick Darge]

Just an update,

Red saved my ass and fixed the stripped screw. Thanks Brett, Randy & Travis. They also installed my bushings for the Nikon mount which now makes all of my lens rock-solid. Feels like a PL mount again.

Also, my RR mattebox came in and its freakin incredible.

Christmas all over again

 

[cinemano]

how about unstripeable screw heads made of diamond

 

[Sean Solowiej]

As for the seizing issue, I have not had a problem with black oxide coated steel screws against anodized aluminum. This is basically how an entire ARRI camera is put together. I've never had to use anti-seize either.

From the research that I did, when I was designing the parts for my PL mount conversion for the ARRI 16SR, I read that the anodize film does not form inside small threaded holes. I noticed that I did not have to give an allowance for the anodize film in the thread tolerance that I used.

*Speculation* If I'm wrong about this, and they hard coated the part, and did not allow for the tolerance on the threaded holes, then the holes themselves might be too small, hence the thread fit is too tight.

If anyone has a theory they care to share on this (and some knowledge to support it) I'd really like to hear about it.

I understand that the Red tends to heat up much more than other camera bodies when in use... Coming from a background as a motorcycle mechanic, steel screws in threaded aluminum will become stuck just from the repeated heating and cooling of the two metals. Aluminum expands more than steel when hot, so the screws will get nicely squeezed in. While I wouldn't reach for the impact driver (prime tool for loosening stuck engine screws without stripping), I like the idea of using an anti-seize compound on installation.

 

[Erik Widding]

I understand that the Red tends to heat up much more than other camera bodies when in use... Coming from a background as a motorcycle mechanic, steel screws in threaded aluminum will become stuck just from the repeated heating and cooling of the two metals. Aluminum expands more than steel when hot, so the screws will get nicely squeezed in.

This theory makes nore sense to me, than mine does now.

 

[Ash Bolland]

hey guys ,

I stripped the top of the last hex screw - after being super careful.
So pissed off with myself - they are super tight..

Anways i'm in Sydney - Anybody know anyone that can help with this - as I don't want to send it back to red for one screw... I'll stick with the pl mount for the mean time, but I wanted to try our Nikon lens... over our standard primes.

thanks

 

[John Redfern]

What size and thread pitch are these screws?

I'm miles from anywhere here on the west coast of Scotland but at least I have a very well equipped watchmaking workshop (and 30 yrs experience) to make small parts like these. Having said that, I'm a complete newbie with the Red camera (don't even get it till Wednesday)

When you talk about stripping screws, I take you mean the Phillips cross-head is stripping and not the thread of the screw. I hate cross heads of all types. Torx is ok and so is hex. With Hex there should be no excuse for the key to pan out if it is a good fit and good quality. Sadly, so many hex keys are just chopped so there is a burr at the end. If, as some say, the screw head sink is shallow make sure the driver, be it cross-head or hex, is crisp and sharp - and a perfect fit. The smaller the screw the smaller the tolerance and the tighter the drive should fit.

John

 

[Ash Bolland]

What size and thread pitch are these screws?

I'm miles from anywhere here on the west coast of Scotland but at least I have a very well equipped watchmaking workshop (and 30 yrs experience) to make small parts like these. Having said that, I'm a complete newbie with the Red camera (don't even get it till Wednesday)

When you talk about stripping screws, I take you mean the Phillips cross-head is stripping and not the thread of the screw. I hate cross heads of all types. Torx is ok and so is hex. With Hex there should be no excuse for the key to pan out if it is a good fit and good quality. Sadly, so many hex keys are just chopped so there is a burr at the end. If, as some say, the screw head sink is shallow make sure the driver, be it cross-head or hex, is crisp and sharp - and a perfect fit. The smaller the screw the smaller the tolerance and the tighter the drive should fit.

John

Yes the head is stripped - the thread is fine, just cant unscrew. With your 30 years of experience, how would you remove the screw...

thanks

 

[John Redfern]

Drill the head off. Simply said, but great precision required if you are not going to mess the surrounding metal. The principle though is to use a drill that is very slightly bigger diameter that the full diameter of the threaded portion. Drill precisely on the centre line of the screw and drill absolutely upright. Proceed very carefully and you will just break through where the head joins the shank. Done with a normal drill tip angle and you won't even mark the mount.

That's the theory. To do it properly - and this is the way Red would do it in the machine shop - mount the body in a drill press or milling machine that will accurately centre and hold the camera body firmly but without marking it.

Without being firmly and precisely held the dill might slip or wander off centre and damage the mount. I would also probably use a spade drill (one without a spiral) as it will not bend or wander - particularly as it is trying to centre in a messy hole.

I'd be happy to do it for you here for free. But I think California is just a wee bit nearer to you than Scotland.

John

 

[John Redfern]

For lubricating the screw so that it doesn't bind, one might try molybdenum grease. It is a good anti-seize but it is messy as are any oils no matter how sparingly applied. In a watch, a drop of oil half the size of the smallest pin-head is probably too much to oil a pivot for 5 years.

The safest and cleanest is to get a single turn of plumbers Teflon tape around the screw and head. Easier said than done but there is no danger of drips or dust getting anywhere near the sensor.

I'd be interested to know what Red recommend.

John

 

[Ash Bolland]

Thanks John, Ill let you know what red say.or maye Brent will post here?..But I wont be drilling anything myself...