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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Stolen Cameras & Metadatas

Lewis-M Soucy

Lewis-M Soucy

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Anyone with programming skills could maybe create this useful application:

Since the camera PIN number is included in the Red footage metadatas, there could be this small app, implemented in Redcine or all other Red softwares, like a "secret online check" whenever Red footage is loaded on a computer.

Imagine a website with registered Red camera PIN numbers; when one is marked as stolen, there is a warning. When someone works on Red footage on any computer, the app makes a hidden online check automatically with the website and should the footage come from a stolen camera, it automatically sends the IP address to the owner and website.

This could be a sort of tracknig device without the cost of a GPS system...

We just need to figure out how to install the app... Maybe in the next release of the Red codec...?

Any thoughts?
 
Sure would be cool, the only problem would be that "secret online checks" could easily be blocked, as what happened with latest Adobe softwares. Maybe this could work in conjunction with an embedded "bad PINs" database in every software update ... this has been talked about before and i guess RED is already working on it?
 
I suggested this a while back but heard no response.

If RED were to implement this in REDalert or REDcine they probably would not advertise it too much as
it would function much better if few people knew about it (as mentioned in post 2).
 
yep, a fancy idea could be offering an "engraving" option so that one can engrave his camera name below the RED sign on camera side, like early prototypes ... camera number is always hidden. Not bulletproof but could help spotting suspicious cameras (hey, why are you hiding your camera name?!) hehe ... would like to have it anyway.
 
Camera serial # or PIN # embedded in the R3D is pretty much just for informational purposes. It would take minimal effort with a decent hex editor to do a search and replace to make these fields say something else in a group of files. Much the same way you could do a mass search and replace of a phone number on a bunch of text files.

And what of the other angle of the not so tech/hacker savvy? Someone rents a camera and it turns out it's on the locked list, but they don't find out until after the fact and only because their footage is locked out... Is that a good idea?

I think the best way to deal with stolen cameras is for everyone of us to be active in monitoring camera usage as a community. If you rent a camera or hire a RED owner/op, etc.. Take a moment to cross-reference the camera info with those reported stolen. This would greatly reduce the value of a stolen camera and possibly help recover it.

We also have to figure that stolen cameras will obsolete themselves at some point as they will not be eligible for trade-in and upgrades through RED. And since RED requires cameras to be sent in for inspection in order to properly transfer ownership, I think anyone legitimately buying a camera and properly transfering ownership record is not really at risk of buying a stolen one.

As for camera owners who do have one stolen... It sucks. I've had lots of things stolen over the years. All I can say is that there's no fool-proof way to prevent theft and additional anti-theft measures inside a camera system would only increase the overall cost for everyone and add more bulk to the system. Much better to follow good security practices and have good insurance. With approximately 5000 cameras out there, we have to figure that only a few have been stolen. I think I've only seen 4 or 5 total reports. 5 cameras would be about 0.1%.

Laser engraving of the camera isn't a bad idea. Perhaps RED could offer such a service in the future. But in the meantime, there's plenty of places in this world which offer such services. I would etch into the main camera body somewhere, not into the CF module cover where the RED name is at. That's a smaller part that can be easily replaced or modified compared to the bulk of the camera body. Etch into a part where additional sanding or grinding would be highly suspicious or even could potentially damage the camera. Tiny laser-etched company logos or letters, etc.. between multiple top ridges might not be a bad idea for marking your territory. I wonder what warranty implications doing such laser etching would have?
 
Hi Jeff,
Engraving a logo or name is a good idea, but what happens if you want to trade your Red1 towards a epic? Will Red accept engraved bodies.
Cheers,
Marc
 
So what would happen if you shot a film on a camera that was later stolen? It would not be possible to work with the footage, I can't see that helping the digital revoloution. Not sure I would want to take the risk.
 
Whatever security measures are taken in the end, they shouldn't be discussed openly on the net, of course. Red can just hire a security team and keep it zipped.
 
Marc Berger said:
Hi Jeff,
Engraving a logo or name is a good idea, but what happens if you want to trade your Red1 towards a epic? Will Red accept engraved bodies.
Click to expand...

I think it would be great, like getting some historical vintage piece of gear, like some Arri that was used on a classic from the 70's... It would even raise Red's standard concept and quality reputation as getting a "used" camera as something highly worthy as opposed to "used outdated gear"... Like a Mustang in a way, that nowadays goes for more than it was worth new back then...

Tom said:
Whatever security measures are taken in the end, they shouldn't be discussed openly on the net, of course. Red can just hire a security team and keep it zipped.
Click to expand...

All is known today, like no one is afraid of stealing a cell phone or laptop since they can break it easily... Hackers are cheap labor nowadays... But still... Discouragement is the most efficient way to fight theft, like alarm systems... Maybe Redcine should require a key, only Red owners (or selected post houses) could download and use it...

Or maybe you're right, let's all excahnge phone numbers and discuss this over a conference call (or let's PM each other)! Moderator, please erase this post and who calls who first? :)
 
There is software you can put on your iPod, and when it is plugged into a computer, it will send an email out with the exact location of the device. Maybe something like that.
 
I'd sell my Red the day online blocking is implemented, out of principle. It's not planned, so good.. Fuck that..

In fact, anything R3D that goes in the opposite direction than, "opened up", is the wrong direction, for all parties concerned IMHO

Look after your R1 as possible, get insurance, some will get nicked. Thats life, it can be inconvenient. Lets not waste resources..
 
this is a dumb thread, suggestions like red should hire a security team, why go the extra step and hire bodyguards for every red they sell. Some people don't use their common sense. theft is theft. half the users on this forum steal ideas, software, etc. Protect your assets and property. Even humans get stolen.
 
I finally agree with something Ronx said :)
 
From a purely theoretical standpoint the online check beside being seriously ethically questionable also is less practical than a hardcoded 'black list'.

Why check a server when the user probably downloaded an up to date version of REDCine? Include a blacklist of stolen cameras. Check the r3d against the built in blacklist and just include a pop-up.

No communication between RED/User. No back doors. No nefarious schemes. No need for an internet connection. No blocking. Just a little popup. "The R3D files contain data which matches a known stolen camera. Please contact RED. Thank you for your time and sorry for the inconvenience."
 
ronx said:
I'd sell my Red the day online blocking is implemented, out of principle. It's not planned, so good.. Fuck that..

In fact, anything R3D that goes in the opposite direction than, "opened up", is the wrong direction, for all parties concerned IMHO

Look after your R1 as possible, get insurance, some will get nicked. Thats life, it can be inconvenient. Lets not waste resources..
Click to expand...


Second that. Security and limitations just take focus away from the real purpose of the cam - to take great pictures.
 
Ronx, Jarred, Janne, I disagree ... but thats forums.

Yes, a hex editor can alter files,
sure, an edit station need not be web connected,
agreed, the cams main purpose is to make pictures
but who said anything about blocking files?

In cases where thieves slip up and stolen R3D metadata is noticed,
a simple alert to the true owner of the R1 is all that is needed.
 
shashbugu said:
this is a dumb thread, suggestions like red should hire a security team, why go the extra step and hire bodyguards for every red they sell. Some people don't use their common sense. theft is theft. half the users on this forum steal ideas, software, etc. Protect your assets and property. Even humans get stolen.
Click to expand...

I think that using our brains to find ways to better protect our assets is not dumb. It is common sense to have an insurance, and yes chances are that if someon wants to steal something, no matter how well protected it is, he will.

But there are lots of different people on this forum, seeing things different ways, having different reasons and desires to protect their investments, some that might have worked a lot and saved great amounts of money to offer themselves a long expected creative tool.

Thanks to some stubborn imaginative geniuses, clever discoveries and inventions were made no matter how dumb they might have seemed at first.

A few weeks ago, nearly 30 cameras were stolen from Panavision in Germany, and no more than 2 weeks later, another 25 or so were stolen again from Panavision in Paris by the same gang. These are people with a lot of common sense, but it did put them, their insurance, their clients and their clients insurance in a lot of shit...

This is a reality, this is the world we live in, and if there are ways to prevent this in a better way, some might just think it could be useful.

Thanks to the "protection of my assets" advice, it's a good idea (did you mean I should get an insurance?). Oh and while I'm at it, do you think we shouldn't leave the camera alone anymore while we go on lunch break, just in case?... Should have used my common sense more... I'll try and do that from now on...

Sorry for the dumb thread.
 
Help needed

Help needed

I finally joined the loser's club last nite.
Camera and gear stolen.stolen from Georgia tech parking deck from car.
luckily the reds were at home.
HVX/letus/Zacuto/redrock/Zeisszfs/macbookpro and a few.

Sooo...I think I need insurance(finally).reds are going to Milan in 2 weeks.
help/sugestions
Thx,
Babu
 
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