Stills from motion...

[Matt W.]

Hehe, true, on one of my Photography forums, were we discuss the MF future, and now with the new Leaf DB with 80MP, ( 34K for DB and Body Only)

Are you buying one of these? They look incredible. It will be hard to find a lens that resolves this much resolution, unfortunately. 645 film is nowhere near 80 megapixels. The lenses aren't designed to be this sharp. The price isn't that bad, though, given the resolution.

People who are comparing Red's cameras to digital medium format cameras have it all wrong, though. Digital medium format cameras are built like medium format film cameras, to be slow in terms of ISO (100-400) and the speed at which they shoot. They're designed to be used with strobes, which only recharge so fast and which output enough light that 400ISO is fine. More for studio and landscape than for candids.

Obviously tons of people will benefit from a camera that shoots images on par with a dSLR at 24fps, but it's a completely different market from the medium format shooter. Probably a bigger market, actually. Medium format digital is worth every cent if you need to print billboards, but pointless otherwise. A 5D II delivers half the image quality and ten times the flexibility for 1/20th the price, the next generation Red will be more expensive but even more flexible.

What's confusing to me is Red's 617 camera. That's an entire platter of flawless silicon. (From which you could also get a 4x5 non-scanning back...how many dreams would that fulfill?) $55,000 or whatever is much, much too cheap for that camera.

As for now, not very impressed by a decently lit 2 megapixel head shot. The first Canon dSLR could do this ten years ago.

 

[Dan Kanes]

The examples shown here are interesting enough, but is it at all possible to see a still generated from the still's mode from the Epic? Unless I am mistaken, I don't believe there has been an example posted.

If someone can point me to a thread where I can take a look I would be most grateful.


RG

Other than "bitrate" recorded and number of frames captured I think there would be zero image quality difference between the "stills" and "motion" modes of the Epic. I think that is the point - Uncompromising quality whether you are shooting 1 frame per hour or 24 frames (or more) per second.

 

[Lorenzo Straight]

Super sharp, Jim. Epic is great for stills.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Dan, there will be huge "quality" differences between the stills and motion capture if you consider capturing fast action etc. to be a part of that "quality". Stills photographers will want more than 24fps in most cases (and have that option) but this test image is a beautiful example of what can be pulled from motion capture.

Edit: Sorry, that's confusing: stills photographers have the option of much faster shutter speeds to hold the quality- but that is something quite separate from ideal motion capture.

 

[Charlie Anderson]

Not every stills shooter will need an Epic, that's for sure, but there are an awful lot of photographers out there that will see the advantages of this camera. I would guess that the sports photogs you work next to, Charlie, would be a shoe in for an Epic. Fashion. Documentary. Reportage. Wildlife. Heck, maybe even fine art: I have a couple of very decent Solo exhibitions set for next year, nothing would give me more pleasure than to make RED a part of that. (;

That does make sense. I wonder if everything will be shot red for video and use stills from that for marketing purposes...something interesting to consider

 

[Lee Saxon]

Beautiful shots.

Pretty noisy. Must have pushed it a good bit from 800, especially for the second shot.

Wow have we been using different cameras. I've been shooting a D2x for the last 5 years and I WISH 800 looked that clean.

Thank God my new D700 arrived Friday!

 

[Dan Kanes]

Dan, there will be huge "quality" differences between the stills and motion capture if you consider capturing fast action etc. to be a part of that "quality". Stills photographers will want more than 24fps in most cases (and have that option) but this test image is a beautiful example of what can be pulled from motion capture.

Edit: Sorry, that's confusing: stills photographers have the option of much faster shutter speeds to hold the quality- but that is something quite separate from ideal motion capture.

Fps is related to, but clearly distinct from shutter angle (or shutter speed) you could shoot 24fps at 1/2000th of a second or 120 fps at open shutter, that will make a big difference in the kind of images. See what I mean? I think fast action is where "motion" is more similar to what we know as high speed stills. What we don't know about yet is Long exposure times, the exact opposite of what we think of as action photography. Long exposures would be like 1s or Bulb shutter for example. Those modes and flash sync would be what I would guesstimate to be the big differences between the "stills" and "motion" modes of the camera. Anyone wanna weigh in on this?

 

[Chad Lancaster]

...how many dreams would that fulfill?)

Mine

 

[Bill Anderson]

Exactly, Dan.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Are you buying one of these? They look incredible. It will be hard to find a lens that resolves this much resolution, unfortunately. 645 film is nowhere near 80 megapixels. The lenses aren't designed to be this sharp. The price isn't that bad, though, given the resolution.

People who are comparing Red's cameras to digital medium format cameras have it all wrong, though. Digital medium format cameras are built like medium format film cameras, to be slow in terms of ISO (100-400) and the speed at which they shoot. They're designed to be used with strobes, which only recharge so fast and which output enough light that 400ISO is fine. More for studio and landscape than for candids.

Obviously tons of people will benefit from a camera that shoots images on par with a dSLR at 24fps, but it's a completely different market from the medium format shooter. Probably a bigger market, actually. Medium format digital is worth every cent if you need to print billboards, but pointless otherwise. A 5D II delivers half the image quality and ten times the flexibility for 1/20th the price, the next generation Red will be more expensive but even more flexible.

What's confusing to me is Red's 617 camera. That's an entire platter of flawless silicon. (From which you could also get a 4x5 non-scanning back...how many dreams would that fulfill?) $55,000 or whatever is much, much too cheap for that camera.

As for now, not very impressed by a decently lit 2 megapixel head shot. The first Canon dSLR could do this ten years ago.

Yes I'm buying one of this Matt, and let me tell you that the lenses used with the DF Mamiya body resolve that much resolution no problem.

Now for others I don't know, but when I compare Red to be Epic 645 with the announced specs, I do make a direct comparison to MF DB's, as the sensor size of the 645 Epic is the same and or extremely close to that of the 645 MF DB's I use.

Its just that there are many things that the MF manufacturers are leaving behind, and this are not only the super slow Frame per Second shooting, but also the LCD on their DB's really Sucks, and options of shooting are still 30 far behind DSL:R, yes different machines for different jobs, but then again look at what Pentax has done with their newest release of the 40MP MF body incased in a DSLR functionality and weather proofing, great Job.

I expect the Epic 645 to eat up a great portion of the MF Still Photography market, of this I'm certain, as every time I bring up the subject with any of my fellow Photographers they just start crying, because the Epic 645 is not here hehe.

 

[Chuck Z]

I must say that is the most organic noise I have seen from a digital camera.

++

It looks more like film than anything. It's definitely not anything compression related.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

++

It looks more like film than anything. It's definitely not anything compression related.

Just for the record, on what I said about Compression artifacts.. They are always present no matter how little, that is simply impossible to avoid when uploading on the net, smaller files.

However I do agree that the images are very organic, and have nothing but WOW to say about it, just that I would like to see that Sparkle of sharpness in her eyes

 

[Joe Taylor]

The threads name is:
Stills from motion.
I guess that's a giveaway....

But in the meat of the thread the author wrote: "We had a still photographer (Robert Alvarado) shoot EPIC for stills and motion at RED last week." And, "I think he used a RED RPP 300mm at T4.0, 1/60 and ISO 800 for this shot. Pretty sure."

And since Epic is touted to be a a Digital Stills and Motion Camera (DSMC) I've been long looking forward to learning more about how the EPIC will function as a still camera. Will it use a separate RAW color space independent of its RAW REDCODE for motion? How will the resolution compare to a still lifted from from motion and treated as such? What sort of shutter speeds can we expect? Since I earn most of my income from my time-lapse work, I, myself, am hoping for the ability to do long exposures, both with still AND motion.

I understand that RED will make this info available when it's ready, but, damn! I thought they were finally releasing some results.

 

[Lee Saxon]

Biggest question that needs to be asked about these pics, I don't know how this hasn't come up :

What is this zillion dollar magic tripod that lets you shoot 1/60th with a 300mm lens?!

 

[R. Gonzales]

Other than "bitrate" recorded and number of frames captured I think there would be zero image quality difference between the "stills" and "motion" modes of the Epic. I think that is the point - Uncompromising quality whether you are shooting 1 frame per hour or 24 frames (or more) per second.

Dan,

Thanks, but I am seeing noise where I didn't expect to see noise. Of course this could be the compression in the jpeg or the grade used to get the final look. It still would be nice to see images captured in the stills mode without a heavy grade.

RG

 

[Bill Anderson]

Lee, assuming you're talking about the stills end, I make many of my images with a 300 mil lens and, even outdoors if it isn't too breezy, I can get away with a fairly lightweight and inexpensive tripod. Nothing magic about it. Most of my exposures range from a couple of secs to no higher than 1/60th. Not that I favour lightweight and inexpensive, but I just can't carry heavy pods about all day. I used to use a surveyor's tripod for much of my 8X10 work. If I can do it, anyone can.

 

[Dan Kanes]

I would take big chunks of noise over the beige curtain that some other digital camera manufacturers seem to drape over the image and call a film gamma.

Sometimes I like to intentionally underexpose the MX and push it because I like the characterisic.

 

[joshua csehak]

As far as the first image, I love it!!

I agree. Gorgeous image. And the green tint goes beautifully with her tat.

However, not to be critical about a sample Still extraction form Motion and the work of a fellow Photographer, but I would love to see more sharpness then that, and see the sparkle in the eyes,

Yeah, as beautiful as it is, it might not be the best example for showing off the camera. Personally, I'd like to see a full-body 4k or so tiff, maybe outside on a sunny day with HDRx™ turned on, maybe at f8 so everything's in sharp focus. Not that I need any convincing. Just would like to see it

Before, Strait out of Camera... After with simple pass thru Photoshop WB, Skin smoothing and Eye Color & Contrast (client's Request)

Ketch, how did you do the skin smoothing? Such an amazing improvement!

 

[Bill Anderson]

Guys, it's one image. One image that shows off certain qualities under certain conditions. If there is anything lacking for your taste, It should be easy enough to remedy once you have an Epic. I think that we should brace ourselves for what is yet to come, and I'm not just talking about aesthetics.

 

[Shane Betts]

You pervert!

Go and find some more female species on the intranet!

Boy, that's harsh :lol: I thought my secret would be safe here.

Hello. My name is Shane and I am a Reduser addict...