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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Still Workflow Video

Iain Philpott said:
So true. Scarlet cannot do for stills what Epic crucially can. Having done lots of research - even nearly bought a Scarlet and now having just shot with Epic on a trip in Cape Town, shooting to get the optimal still from motion, only Epic is going to give it to you. 96fps, 180deg+ shutter @5k is what works, no 'if's' and 'but's' about it. I shot Canon 1DS Mk2 right along side Epic and in my opinion the Epic 16Bit Tiff 76mb file was slightly better (PL glass?). I was blown away by it. Even when I crop the 'still' landscape frame down to become a portrait to fit a magazine I'm still left in awe! You can talk about resolution till the cow's come home (English expression!) but all i know is this camera delivers still frames that I'm spellbound by..... I now just need to find the best way to take the 96fps motion down to 24fps - any advice?

However, to complete the package for me........ RED are you listening! Two things on my wish list to make the camera just perfect - single frame and flash sync.....please, please, please!
Click to expand...

Anyone test their Scarlet shooting stills + motion yet? Preferably with something close to camera that is actually moving i.e. creating motion blur....

EDIT: Iain if you don mind posting your tests that would be great. Or at least tell us more specs about what you were shooting. A giraffe from a landrover? a model in a studio? thanks ;)
 
Arturo Sánchez said:
Yes i know it but if you want to have useful footage you would have to set the shuter speed number like the frame rate or like the double if you don't want to create strobo effect.
Example: If you shoot at 30fps and 120 shutter speed you would be able to catch stills from motion without motion blur yes,but the footage would not be usefull(strobo effect)
Click to expand...

This makes no sense either. So the only motion you can capture is 120FPS slomotion? What happens if you need 24p? Speed it up and get stroby motion again. There is no free lunch. If you're shooting for stills, shoot for stills. If you're shootig motion shoot motion
 
I'm jumping in this thread kind of late... Hopefully, not too late though.

Is there any updates on the Stills mode for Epic? I would really like to start using this mode. I like the idea of shooting motion for stills, but its not ideal for every situation... great for fashion and/or action photography, not so much for landscape, architecture, etc.

While I'm here, I'll go so far as suggest what I'd REALLY like to see from a stills mode:

When in stills mode, fully depressing and holding the shutter button for 2 seconds, the camera starts recording a configurable 1-30 second pre-record using motion settings (1/48th, ISO800, etc). At each shutter release, the camera shoots a second (HDRx?) frame using the "stills" settings, (1/250th, ISO640, etc), and triggers a strobe sync. Each press, the camera continues to record an additional another 1-30 seconds (same duration as the pre-record). If another press occurs in that time frame, the clip is extended + the new still is shot, and the internal timer resets to recording another 1-30 seconds trailing the last shot. Pressing and holding the shutter button for 2 seconds, stops the recording. If not pre-recording, a press of the shutter simply shoots the stills frame, fires the strobe, etc, and advances the clip.

The idea is this: Say you've got a pre-record configure for 2 seconds. The first shutter release will record a 4-second clip (2 seconds before, 2-seconds after). You wait 30 seconds before the next shot (giving the model some direction), so the first clip ends, a second starts and begins pre-recording 2 seconds, this time, you shoot 5 shots in 1 second intervals. You will get a single clip that is 9 seconds long, 2 seconds pre-record, 5 shots at one second intervals, and 2-seconds of post-record. The clips will contain the video shot for motion at 1/48th (or whatever), with "marks" and "b-track images" for the stills. Opening the clips in RedCine-X will show the entire clip on the timeline, and show markers for each of the stills. Ideally, when scrubbing the timeline, when you hit a frame that was shot as a still, it will show you the "stills" frame over the motion one, since if using a strobe, etc the motion frames will likely be over-exposed, or have motion blur artifacts which are probably undesireable. Of course, you should have an option to export either...
 
Can we have a further look at scarlet possibilities for stills at the moment ? (will not use the footage for video)
- 4K / 30fps / 120 shutter speed OK
- 4K / 24fps / shutter ???
- 5K / 12fps..... ???
- 5K / 6fps / HDRx ???
 
I may be naive, but wouldn't the strobo effect really only matter for motion-purpose video? If your purpose is to extract stills from motion, the high quality frames would still be there, would they not?
 
Iain Philpott said:
So true. Scarlet cannot do for stills what Epic crucially can. Having done lots of research - even nearly bought a Scarlet and now having just shot with Epic on a trip in Cape Town, shooting to get the optimal still from motion, only Epic is going to give it to you. 96fps, 180deg+ shutter @5k is what works, no 'if's' and 'but's' about it. I shot Canon 1DS Mk2 right along side Epic and in my opinion the Epic 16Bit Tiff 76mb file was slightly better (PL glass?). I was blown away by it. Even when I crop the 'still' landscape frame down to become a portrait to fit a magazine I'm still left in awe! You can talk about resolution till the cow's come home (English expression!) but all i know is this camera delivers still frames that I'm spellbound by..... I now just need to find the best way to take the 96fps motion down to 24fps - any advice?

However, to complete the package for me........ RED are you listening! Two things on my wish list to make the camera just perfect - single frame and flash sync.....please, please, please!
Click to expand...

Problem. Surely, the objective, or one of the objectives, of nailing a great, sharp still photograph is to get the Red Code down real low. On these settings, the best you'll be able to get is 12-1?
 
If you are shooting specifically for stills, the ridiculous looking strobo effect that would normally haunt your video will not matter, as long as you are only extracting stills from it. Keep in mind if you're letting a client view that footage live, they're going to be drastically confused by the Saving Private Ryan look.
 
We talkign 45 degree shutter here? That look is fantastic. Now did Saving Private Ryan use this shutter speed through out the entirety of the film? Some of those scenes look pretty standard shutter speed. I'd love to shoot a whole feature with 45 degrees it but low light situations I have to go back to 180 degrees.
 
Strobo effect? Are shutter angle are you referring to precisely. 360 degree like Apocolipto?

Arturo Sánchez said:
Yes i know it but if you want to have useful footage you would have to set the shuter speed number like the frame rate or like the double if you don't want to create strobo effect.
Example: If you shoot at 30fps and 120 shutter speed you would be able to catch stills from motion without motion blur yes,but the footage would not be usefull(strobo effect)
Click to expand...
 
One way to get smooth motion and sharp stills is to use HDRx and pull stills from the X track.

One issue with this method is that you have to choose whether to expose for stills or motion. Perhaps Red can enable an alternative Stills + Motion mode: choose your stills shutter speed (for example 1/200) and your motion shutter speed (say 1/50 at 25fps). Camera shoots enough frames at the stills shutter speed (at 360 degrees) to make up the motion frame. In this example the sensor would record 4 frames at 1/200, take a break for 1/50th of a second then record 4 more frames etc. In post, the 4 "still" frames would be combined as a single "motion" frame. For higher shutter speed stills, you would need to add more frames. If media speed is the limiting factor and Epic is able to do the processing realtime, maybe the one "still" frame can be recorded alongside a merged "motion" frame composed from a set of still frames and the extra frames can then be discarded.

This could also be a way of adding a kind of digital ND filter - split each frame into sections for faster shutter speed, then re-combine them for desired motion blur.

I'm not sure if this would work at all. Perhaps the reset time of the sensor makes combined frames unusable. Perhaps there's something else I'm missing. There was a thread on this kind of idea a while back but I can't find it.

Any thoughts?
 
why not just skip this HDR and shoot at a high shutter in the first place?
 
First time to post.
I am a photographer located in Austin Texas, my focus is on shooting teens, people with pets and men and women on their motorcycles.
My question is, when you shoot red video you are actually pulling one frame out for your still photo. Do you have motion blur when the subject is moving fast?
The reason I'm asking is, it appears easier just to have a subject run through several poses and then pull out the best photos from the video file.
Has anyone actually done this and what did you think of the image quality?.

Thank you

Larry Ross
 
Larry W Ross said:
Do you have motion blur when the subject is moving fast?
Click to expand...
Hi Larry - you would have motion blur if you shot at 1/48shutter. However, you're not limited to shooting at 1/48 shutter in video land. You would just shutter up until motion blur was at an acceptable level (just as you would for stills).

Also keep in mind that if you are shooting at higher frame rates, motion blur is going to become less of a problem. For example, if you were to shoot 5k @ 120fps, even if your shutter was open - that will produce the same motion blur as a shutter speed of 1/120.

Much of the discussion here is focusing on how to use Epic footage for natural looking stills and motion. On the stills side, you usually want to eliminate motion blur by using a high shutter speed, whereas on the motion side of things you want to maintain a slower shutter speed to maintain natural looking motion blur. Being that you are just looking at using the footage for stills though - you shouldn't face this problem :)
 
Is there really no practical way to shoot good looking 4k 24 fps video & still pull sharp stills on Scarllet? Has anyone tried a faster than 48 shutter but applied motion blur in post? Any other methods other than lose resolution with HDR or with a higher frame rate?

Thanks!
 
PC Greene said:
Is there really no practical way to shoot good looking 4k 24 fps video & still pull sharp stills on Scarllet? Has anyone tried a faster than 48 shutter but applied motion blur in post? Any other methods other than lose resolution with HDR or with a higher frame rate?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

There was something about this a while back about shooting a higher shutter speed throughout and then just doing whatever in post to bring it back to look like its a 48 shutter - apparently it won't A. Look good and B. its a massive pain which brings back point A in the end

Although I guess if you have the expertise and know how you could technically do anything right? Time and budget willing

I'm curious about this HDRX thing though, since the X track is for stills pulling, would you expose correctly for X or...?

This is assuming you want both video and stills at the same time


Side note: At higher frame rates you can't drop the compression can you? Though with stills I'd guess shooting even 3:1 just to push that tiny (invisible?) quality out wouldn't be a bad idea - at 6:1 on the Scarlet I'm pretty pleased but I can imagine that 3:1 maybe just that tad bit extra better
 
My thought would be to enable HDRX at 2 Stops. Plan to expose the motion track at 1/48th, and plan to expose the X Track at 1/192. Set your meter to 1/96th which places the exposure in the middle of range.

In RCX Pro, you would need to lift your exposure 1 stop for motion, and pull down your exposure 1 stop for stills - easily saved as a look for each, not a huge pain in the ass. Just realize when you are on set you have one stop less latitude for shadows and highlights, and light appropriately. If you can't pull a sharp frame at 1/192 of a second maybe its time for a tripod or monopod.

My $0.02 ... works for me.

Anybody have a better way?
 
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