Still photographer trying sort out his video life

[Tyler Stalman]

I'm am currently a stills photographer, with heavy investments in Canon cameras and lenses. Most of my income comes from stock photography, but lately I've been doing more work on spec, including video. I've taken all the cash from my recent video projects to reinvest in gear to support my 5D, and they will carry over to whatever comes next. I have a few questions and concerns I hoped could be worked out here.

1. Will a 15mm rail system work well with a Scarlet/Epic, or will I need a a new support rig?

2. Will both the Scarlet and Epic capture 14MP stills? This is the only number I've seen floating around.

3. Is there a multipoint system for auto-focusing, or will I always to touch the screen to select a focus area? The touch screen seems nice, but it would be tough to always be reaching over to adjust focus.

4. What will the crop be on the different non-35mm sensors, and which models will be full frame?

Being to new to world of Red, I've got to say that it is excruciating trying to get clear answers on anything. I would really appreciated a centralized FAQ type area that always had up to date information.

Just trying to balance staying ahead of the curve, and not crashing over it, wasting money on the wrong gear.

 

[Kamilla Lusa]

i'm not sure i know the answers for other questions but largest possible scarlet stills are 3072 x 1620

 

[Sam Eilertsen]

Scarlet is only 4.5MP. I think Epic is 14MP.

The Epic's sensor is bigger than APS-C, I think its close to APS-H, so you will have like 1.2x crop, and many EF-S lenses will vignette. There are plans for a full frame Epic (and much bigger ones too) but don't hold your breath. Scarlet is 2/3" so you would have a 3.5x crop using full frame lenses. Most people will getting the Scarlet Interchangeable will be using 16mm or B4 glass, or RED's mini-primes.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I'm am currently a stills photographer, with heavy investments in Canon cameras and lenses. Most of my income comes from stock photography, but lately I've been doing more work on spec, including video. I've taken all the cash from my recent video projects to reinvest in gear to support my 5D, and they will carry over to whatever comes next. I have a few questions and concerns I hoped could be worked out here.

First of all, welcome to Reduser

1. Will a 15mm rail system work well with a Scarlet/Epic, or will I need a a new support rig?

Yes.

2. Will both the Scarlet and Epic capture 14MP stills? This is the only number I've seen floating around.

Only the Epic has nearly 14MP, 13.8 to be exact, with a 5120x2700 image size.

3. Is there a multipoint system for auto-focusing, or will I always to touch the screen to select a focus area? The touch screen seems nice, but it would be tough to always be reaching over to adjust focus.

Be ready to be absolutely blown away in the manner that EPIC will Autofocus your Canon Lenses

4. What will the crop be on the different non-35mm sensors, and which models will be full frame?

Similar to the 1D bodies, the FF Epic is not do till later on.

Being to new to world of Red, I've got to say that it is excruciating trying to get clear answers on anything. I would really appreciated a centralized FAQ type area that always had up to date information.

Just trying to balance staying ahead of the curve, and not crashing over it, wasting money on the wrong gear.

Trust me when I say, coming from over twenty years of Photography much done on CANON, and MF cameras, that EPIC is a great Path,
and it has already replaced all of our Photography cameras

 

[Steve Wake]

I'm am currently a stills photographer, with heavy investments in Canon cameras and lenses. Most of my income comes from stock photography, but lately I've been doing more work on spec, including video. I've taken all the cash from my recent video projects to reinvest in gear to support my 5D, and they will carry over to whatever comes next. I have a few questions and concerns I hoped could be worked out here.

1. Will a 15mm rail system work well with a Scarlet/Epic, or will I need a a new support rig?

If you're just talking about using the same lenses you have now, there shouldn't be a lot of problems. You might want to check with the rail system manufacturer for forward compatibility with your future kit. They should be aware of Epic's measurements (Scarlet final measurements have not been released, but the main difference is it should be a little narrower). Also realize there are two different widths of 15mm rail systems. One matches 19mm, the narrower is 60mm center to center.

2. Will both the Scarlet and Epic capture 14MP stills? This is the only number I've seen floating around.

For Epic:

5120x2700 is 71.11" x 37.5" @ 72dpi. That is the same as 17.06" x 9" @ 300dpi.

Jim

Scarlet is about 5MP, but that's at 1.89:1 Aspect Ratio

3. Is there a multipoint system for auto-focusing, or will I always to touch the screen to select a focus area? The touch screen seems nice, but it would be tough to always be reaching over to adjust focus.

Absolutely, yes! Focus Priority, Continuous Focus, Predictive Focus and Focus Tracking, with user selected AF cells, will all be possible in both still and motion modes.

And I'm sure the touch screen will not be required, since the cameras are also designed to be used with a viewfinder.

4. What will the crop be on the different non-35mm sensors, and which models will be full frame?

Careful with the 35mm term around here. Epic is S-35 (a cinema term) so is similar to APS (crop factor about 1.5) but with a wider aspect ratio. FF35 (similar to stills 35mm, but wider aspect ratio) RED camera will be released some time in the future. Also, "Full Frame" sometimes gets used around here to mean recording the entire sensor, even if it may be a S-35 or Scarlet 2/3" sensor. (The entire sensor is often not recorded - windowed - to match a particular cinema aspect ratio). Scarlet (all have a nominal 2/3" sensor) have about crop factor of about 4 but with a different aspect ratio from stills.

Being to new to world of Red, I've got to say that it is excruciating trying to get clear answers on anything. I would really appreciated a centralized FAQ type area that always had up to date information.

Just trying to balance staying ahead of the curve, and not crashing over it, wasting money on the wrong gear.

BTW, you're probably looking at EPIC, not Scarlet, for the MP's and lens interchangeability.

Welcome. I like to think there is a fuzzy logic to this place. Threads are not linear, and random jewels of information and wisdom appear in the most unlikely places. It can be frustrating, but worth the trouble and if you check resumes of some people posting here you may be amazed at times.

EDIT: Well, Ketch finished his reply first, but we obviously agree, and as another person still in the early stages of the still to video transition, I hope I was able to add some helpful info.

 

[Tyler Stalman]

Well I think I can live with 1.2x crop, but 3.5 would be way too much. I've heard mention of the mini primes, but haven't seen detailed info yet. Need to do some more forum digging I suppose.

Thanks Ketch, that's interesting to hear you switched your stills cameras. I will still need something like the 5D (or new 1Ds, if they ever plan on making one) for those times when the megapixels are needed, but you've got me even more excited than I was.

I think I will have to wait and see Canon's next move before I make any decisions. They really cracked the wall between stills and motion with the 5D, now it's time to see if they can follow through and finish what they started.

 

[Tyler Stalman]

Thanks Steve, I really appreciate you tracking down those details. It's been a real crash course trying to figure all these things out. A slow motion months long crash.

I do get the impression that the Scarlet won't be an option for me. My Canon prime kit is almost complete, and I want to get the most out of them.

One other thing that comes to mind, how necessary is a Red Rocket to have a work comfortably on well equipped 2008 Mac Pro? I've heard Jim mention that it's basically the other half of the system, which sounds like I couldn't live without it. True?

 

[Gunleik Groven]

For videowork, a rocket is the last thing you want to save cash on, if you have'em.

 

[Gabe Conroy]

One other thing that comes to mind, how necessary is a Red Rocket to have a work comfortably on well equipped 2008 Mac Pro? I've heard Jim mention that it's basically the other half of the system, which sounds like I couldn't live without it. True?

Depends on your workflow.

Premiere CS5 can edit R3D's in real time without beefy hardware, but you have to bump the resolution down. (Saving the slow full debayer for the final render)

On the other hand if you need high quality transcodes right away, then a rocket is somewhat necessary.

 

[Tyler Stalman]

For videowork, a rocket is the last thing you want to save cash on, if you have'em.

Although saving cash is great, I don't mind spending it when it's worth it. Just wanted to know the Rocket should be in my Required or Optional shopping list.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

(...) EPIC (...) has already replaced all of our Photography cameras

Interesting that the Epic can replace a MF camera, in your opinion.

I'd have thought those were hard to compare directly.

 

[Shane Betts]

Welcome aboard Tyler.

Short tests with Media Composer 5.5 show that AMA will play R3Ds on the timeline without a Red Rocket (like, on my 15" MBP!) and, with a 12 core, Davinci Resolve can debayer in the CPU in RT, given that all of it's other work is done in the GPU. That said, a Rocket is a great investment.

Most other questions have been answered but just to clarify; Although details are still sketchy (until we all get our cameras), there was a post buried here somewhere where they showed the way they were mapping the focus points and they had, like, 3 times as many as we're used to.

They may not manage it but what Red are attempting to do here is build the no compromise camera - the one where you don't keep saying, "if only ...". So far, so amazing!

 

[Steve Wake]

I have a well-equipped 8-core 2008 Mac Pro and I don't anticipate any problems with Scarlet footage. I don't plan on getting EPIC. At most, I may get a CUDA card if I decide to go with Adobe Premier and get away from FCP - waiting to see what Apple announces in a few weeks. Storm from the Foundry is also supposed to be very usable with Scarlet footage and no Rocket.
As far as Epic footage, I think it depends on your patience and turnaround requirements. You'll need to get used to editing with proxies.

Here's some Red footage and the free software to work with the raw files. It's from Scarlet but if you search there are some R3D files from the Red One around too.

Here is a good one for you guys.. lots of motion. Shot Scarlet 8X @ 3K @24fps 1/48th shutter ISO 800.

http://red.cachefly.net/Chicken.zip

You guys are going to need to use the EPIC build of RCX to open this up.. Rocket support wont work and RCX is going to think its just 3K EPIC files so the color science isn't fine tuned in yet.. but it should give you plenty to play around with

http://red.cachefly.net/redcinex/test/REDCINE-X_build_356E_mac32.zip

http://red.cachefly.net/redcinex/test/REDCINE-X_build_356E_mac64.zip

http://red.cachefly.net/redcinex/test/REDCINE-X_build_356E_win64.zip

http://red.cachefly.net/redcinex/test/REDCINE-X_build_356E_win32.zip

Be careful though. Once you start grading (color-correcting and adjusting) RED's Raw motion files I think you'll be floored by the latitude and never want to go back to your Canon MPEGs. The difference is even greater than the difference between still JPEGS and RAW stills.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

The reason of EPIC replacing all Photo Gear, is not only based on MP count, but on what is the general Print size, and the
Insane Dynamic range and color Rendition, which in deed has the MF fill to it do to the fact of providing so much info.

If you had seen the Print Jarred showed us, you will not believed that they cam e from a 13.8 MP sensor, but more form a MF
high MP count sensor.

Does it compare to one of the new 80MP MF sensors? Of course not, but then again if it serves the purpose then there is no need
to also have an other 40 to 50k invested in a Still camera when Epic can do it, and I have not yet shot Flash, awaiting for Flash Sync
to be enabled and Still mode as well.

I still have times were I want that MF capacity, and I will have it soon in off with EPIC 645

Obviously to be noted that the Body form factor of EPIC, even so an incredible achievement does not fit the shooting style of everyone,
that has come to be accustomed to the MF bodies of Still cameras, but for me the learning curve and adjustment was very fast, and the
EPIC M when with me, takes the Hasselblad space in my Bag.

 

[G Lap]

Hi Tyler, here is some more Cinema v Stills background info for you.


http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=582883&postcount=83

http://web.me.com/ducloslenses/DataRef/ImgCir.html


I also posted this in a thread some time back. It's not claimed to be definitive but it served me as a useful, simple reference whilst trying to retune my stills brain to the RED world.


" Sensors: Cinema (RED) v Stills Terminology & Rough Guide


This information is spread across the site in various threads. It might be useful as a rough ‘at a glance’ guide (with the caveat that some figures are approximate, not all source posts are RED official and everything is subject to change......of course). Note that aspect ratio (full sensor) is listed only as an approximate guide, for comparison with the typical 35mm stills 3:2 format.


2/3" - 3072 x 1620 - 3K
10.1x 5.35mm MX
16:9 aspect ratio, approx 11.5mm diagonal,
3.3 micron pixels, approx: 5 mpx, 3.75 FOV crop factor.

R1 - 4520 x 2540 - 4K
24.4 x 13.7mm Mysterium
16:9 aspect ratio, approx 28mm diagonal,
5.4 micron pixels, approx: 12mpx, 1.5 FOV crop factor (APS-C).

S35 - 5120 x 2700 - 5K
30x15mm MX
16:9 aspect ratio, approx 33.5mm diagonal,
5.4 micron pixels, approx: 14mpx, 1.25 FOV crop factor (APS-H).

FF35 - 6000 x 4000 - 6k
36x24mm Monstro
3:2 aspect ratio, approx 43mm diagonal,
6 micron pixels, approx: 24mpx, 0 crop factor. (FF DSLR)

645 - 9334 x 7000 - 9k
56 x 42mm Monstro
4:3 aspect ratio, approx 70mm diagonal,
approx: 65 mpx, 0.6 crop factor.

617 - 28000 x 9334 - 28k
168 x 56mm Monstro
3:1 aspect ratio, approx 177mm diagonal,
approx: 261 mpx, 0.25 crop factor.

Crop Factor refers to Field of View (FOV) crop factor, or Focal Length Multiplier (FLM), referenced to Full-Frame 35mm.

APS-C (Canon1.6, Nikon1.5): Canon 7D, 550D etc, Nikon D300s, D90 etc.
APS-H (Canon 1.3 crop): Canon 1D MkIV.
FF DSLR: Canon 1Ds MkIII and 5D. Nikon D3s/x and D700.

 

[Tyler Stalman]

That is extremely helpful George. The subtle terminology differences were really throwing me off. I think I've got a grip on it now.

If S35 is already a cinema industry standard, does that mean the FF35 is mostly there to satisfy still photographers? Will it not support most cinema lenses, if they are built for an S35 standard? Is the extra sensor space thrown out when shooting most video ratios?

Just when I feel like I have a grip on photography, the world turns

 

[Lee Saxon]

The FF isnt going to be much less viable as a cinema camera because of many standard cinema lenses not working: Reds making their own electronic zooms with cinema housings (gears etc)

 

[G Lap]

A lens projected image circle of 43mm is needed to fully cover FF35 (36x24mm), so I guess something similar will be needed to cover 6K on RED's proposed FF35 Monstro sensor.

Some cine PL lenses already offer that coverage (including some of RED's own) as do the Zeiss Compact Prime cinemas, which are based on Zeiss ZE/ZF stills lenses. Presumanly at least some of RED's future electronic lenses will reach 43mm too.

 

[Steven Hammer]

Tyler if you've got the $ to buy Epic, go for it, I sure wish I could afford one. Epic-S may be an option for me in the future, but Epix-X, probably not (not that I wouldn't LOVE one)

If I can afford it, I will be buying a Scarlet Fixed for my video work and holding on to my DSLR for stills work. I suspect that the still images coming out of Scarlet Fixed will be sufficient for anything that would be going on the web, but obviously not for large prints, for which I'll just hold on to my DSLR until the day that I can land an Epic in my hands, if that ever comes.

 

[Tyler Stalman]

Tyler if you've got the $ to buy Epic, go for it, I sure wish I could afford one. Epic-S may be an option for me in the future, but Epix-X, probably not (not that I wouldn't LOVE one)

If I can afford it, I will be buying a Scarlet Fixed for my video work and holding on to my DSLR for stills work. I suspect that the still images coming out of Scarlet Fixed will be sufficient for anything that would be going on the web, but obviously not for large prints, for which I'll just hold on to my DSLR until the day that I can land an Epic in my hands, if that ever comes.

I expect I will be in the Epic-S camp, the X will probably be a little out of my reach especially when I factor in purchasing all the support accessories.

Most of my income is from selling stock photography online (http://www.istockphoto.com/stalman) which supports all my basic life needs. Now that I've started taking on additional commercial work, instead of giving myself a raise, I would see better returns by reinvesting back into my gear. From what I've seen in my hometown's video market (Calgary, Canada), there is a lot of room for growth, and only a handful of people with able to produce very high quality work. I intend to join that handful

Far more competition in photography than cinematography.