Still Looking 4 REDs

[Tim Whitcomb]

Do you guys really think there will be thousands of buyers of EPIC?

I don't see the point of these low number guys thinking a trade-in preference means someone will pay a premium for a used camera?

Ok, maybe those crazy first adopters who over pay just to be first. (Crazy is subjective of course. they think I am nuts for waiting until the product has been field tested, improved and tested, i.e late adopter)

But my point is I just see WAY more filmmakers, indies anyway, buying the Scarlet... and from what I understand there is not a $17,500 trade-in on Scarlet, that would mean cash back...Epic is killer, but who wants a alow end Epic? Ok, again, these are rhetorical questions, as obviously there is a rabid fan base on here... but still

I just dont see 5000 Epics being sold to RED ONE owners... so to me, while there is a "sucker born every minute", a used camera is a used camera and the economy has just begun to downturn... in 3 to 6 months, its going to get a LOT worse. IMHO

Good luck with your search, but I think the loyalty and enthusiasm on here is incredible, like the early days of Apple.

Good question on order preference. I see a lot of claims, but no thread about Owner Loyalty Programs. It seems silly to punish any of your customers... they all bought cameras. A customer is a customer. right?

 

[sergio arguello]

"Again for clarification, I am talking about about quick, no hassle, purchases of RED Ones bodies "

as aposed to?
loooong drawnout sales? and "hassle" when discussing sales means problems with funds!!

shady shady shady!!!

 

[James Mathers]

What I mean by "quick, no hassle, purchase" is that the funds are standing by and upon inspection of the equipment, I can have payment to a Seller in less than a week. That is vastly different from putting an ad on eBay, waiting to see if anybody bids, and praying they actually come through with payment, then having several hundred dollars deducted from your sale proceeds as eBay Seller Fees.

Many of those in the RED community know me personally, and many more are familiar with my efforts in support of the nonprofit educational group I run, the Digital Cinema Society. I've been in the Camera Equipment game and supporting myself as a Cinematographer for over 30 years. The point is only that this is for real. If you need to sell your RED One, I can think I can offer a good alternative. If you have a camera to sell, please contact me for more details.

Mathers at DigitalCinemaSociety dot org

James Mathers
Cinematographer
Digital Cinema Society, President
Studio City, CA

 

[michael zaletel]

I'd buy an extra RED body for $12,500. Anyone that has one for sale at that price, please PM me.

However, I have a feeling this is a myth. Any guesses on how many PM's I'll get?

-shooter

Still no offers at $12,500. RED One's are definitely holding their value and EPIC "place in line" will cause them to appreciate further.

-shooter

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Still no offers at $12,500. RED One's are definitely holding their value and EPIC "place in line" will cause them to appreciate further.

-shooter

What is this "place in line". Are there threads from RED that confirm
this?

I have never heard of a company that would punish customers who spent
tens of thousands of dollars on their products, only to deny them access
to future products because some people bought some first.?

No offense to you early adopters, but this seems silly to me, and short sighted. Especially with all the digs or complaints
on here even from the most loyal customers, about slow delivery times.

I would think RED would learn from this and delay releasing cameras until they can fullfill larger orders of cameras. That would be good business.

THis is not a start up anymore, but an emerging business that is growing
exponentially. I am sure they have discussed this internally ad naseum.

Im also not saying they should NOT have beta testing programs and/or sweeten the deal for early adopters who helped develop the camera in the field. That would make sense.

But cannibalizing your own product line, by discouraging NEW sales
(because people will rather buy used cameras with low serial numbers, instead a new one... so they can upgrade... what?? )

That just seems like bad business for current RED ONE sales. Why would I want to buy number 5000 + and then have to wait three years to upgrade?

Just curious... because in most biz, owner loyalty, is owner loyalty.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Chip might be right, but I've been watching Ebay very carefully, and there is exactly zero evidence of REDs actually selling on Ebay for anywhere close to the low numbers he's tossing around.

Stephen

Thats because most list on Craigslist. There are several sub retail
on there, but I dont know the Serial numbers.

EBAY fees are ridiculous on this price range, then add payscam fees...

CL is where I have seen used REd ONEs. From Seattle to LA to NY

 

[Harry Clark]

I can vouch for James in that his Paypal payments for purchase of my Red bottom plate and shoulder pad, and the payment for shipping charges, both showed up VERY quickly.
Certainly quick and no hassle on my little transaction with him!
Cheers,
Harry

 

[Brian Reisdorf]

What is this "place in line". Are there threads from RED that confirm
this?

I have never heard of a company that would punish customers who spent
tens of thousands of dollars on their products, only to deny them access
to future products because some people bought some first.?

As per Jim's statement anyone with an early serial RED can transfer it and its benefits to a new owner, including it's "place in line" for an Epic-X, other format Epic, or Scarlet discount.

I don't believe it's so much punishing new customers as rewarding the early adopters. No one can be 100% sure how fast Epics and Scarlets will be delivered no matter how much preparation goes into their production, so an early place in line is just an added bonus. Those that jumped on board early and helped Jim and company finance and build the RED ONE when barely anyone believed in them get the insurance of knowing that when the next generation does arrive, they will be the first to have it. If 1000 are delivered at once in the first batch that would be awesome...but if something comes up and only 100 are delivered, then those 100 will be longtime customers or recent buyers that most likely paid a premium for those first camera numbers (again rewarding the original owner).

In a service market where knowledge is as important as having the actual equipment, those days between first batch and second batch can mean cornering a local market in rentals for quite some time.

But cannibalizing your own product line, by discouraging NEW sales
(because people will rather buy used cameras with low serial numbers, instead a new one... so they can upgrade... what?? )

You're overlooking the fact that only the first 250 cameras or so are worth much of a premium. Once past a certain serial number the benefit of acquiring an early place in line rapidly decreases as it can be logically assumed that supply will steadily increase (or entrance to a theoretical early serial beta period would be cut off). In fact, the reasons to get a >250 serial used camera start getting worse once you factor in that you'll get a 1 year warranty with a new one.

Regardless of all that, after all the insanity of the last year, why would you ever assume RED is run like a regular company?:biggrin:

 

[James Mathers]

Still Looking...

Still Looking...

We are still in the market for at least 3 lightly used RED One bodies with PL mount and basic accessories. We are also on the lookout for EVFs and RED Drives sold separately. I can get you a quick offer and funding. These are serious buyers who are ready to make a purchase, so please contact me if you are looking for swift no-hassle sale. Please contact me for more details.

I don't check the Private Messages too often, so please e-mail me at:

Mathers at DigitalCinemaSociety dot Org

With Sincere Thanks,
James Mathers
Cinematographer
Digital Cinema Society, President
Studio City, CA

 

[Gary Ploj]

Buy one from RED...

Buy one from RED...

I don't understand James, why don't you just buy the camera from RED...you're only saving a few thousand of dollars, if that...possibly since you've been requesting a cheap camera.

You mentioned you have the money for a swift and hassle free sale. I mean you've been on the forum or this thread looking...just buy one from RED.

Just my two cent as a swift & hassle note...!!!

 

[Mickey Conway]

Hey Sergio Long time no speak why did ya’ll move out o’ da country?
I remember many years ago meh waz working as a PA an’ ya’ll waz an assistant cameraman so wa’tch haz ya’ll b’in up ta? iz ya’ll an owner o’ a Red one camera?
It iz such da bomb meh love da images. MC

 

[James Mathers]

I don't understand James, why don't you just buy the camera from RED...you're only saving a few thousand of dollars, if that.

When buying multiple cameras, a few thousand dollars a piece can add up pretty quickly. I also feel that the market for RED One cameras is over-saturated; there are just too many out there for the available work. More cameras makes it more difficult for owners such as myself to get a fair rental price in order to amortize their investment. I just don't want to make the situation any worse by bringing new cameras into the rental market if I don't have to.

There is actually a rental company in Los Angeles advertising "Free REDs". CamTec Motion Picture Cameras recently sent me this e-mail flyer, and I quote: "In order to facilitate a single-source vendor for your digital production, CamTec is offering an exciting new proposal: through the end of the year, when you rent a full camera package, we will provide the Red FREE OF CHARGE." So the camera has become a lost leader to promote the rental of lenses and accessories. Many aspiring Cinematographers are also offering their camera packages, as well as their labor, free of charge in order to get a chance to get credits and footage for their reels. This is all well and good, but it makes it that much tougher for people like me to recoup their investment, and make a living.

It also occurs to me that many RED Owners who had anticipated more work for their cameras may need to consider selling them as the current financial mess wears on. This could be a good alternative for them, and save my client many thousands of dollars.

So, Still Looking...

James Mathers
Cinematographer
RED Owner #30X
President, Digital Cinema Society
Mathers at DigitalCinemaSociety dot org

 

[donatello b]

"feel that the market for RED One cameras is over-saturated; there are just too many out there for the available work ....etc"

your reasons seem logical .. but ??
looks like you 1st posted "want to buy 3 reds " on jan 6th ... so how many have your bought in this over saturated market ?
how many have been offered up for sale ?
or has the sellers just not come down to what your buyer is willing pay ?

 

[Conrad Hunziker]

Jim has been a part of quite a few Reds exchanging hands in the last few months. I personally know of a few that I have shot with whose owners decided to sell through Jim, not just to his current client, with both sides ending up happy with the result.

Although this board is a good way to reach out to a lot of Red owners, it is certainly not the only way. And just because Jim is still looking for three doesnt mean he hasnt transferred any. Perhaps his client decided to buy more?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I have two RED drives that I may be willing to part with... $800 each, both in excellent physical and cosmetic condition. Both would include original packaging and AC adapters. No drive cable as that's a separate item anyway. I'm not definite yet if I'm going to sell them... But I'm thinking about it.

 

[Charles Nader]

When buying multiple cameras, a few thousand dollars a piece can add up pretty quickly. I also feel that the market for RED One cameras is over-saturated; there are just too many out there for the available work. More cameras makes it more difficult for owners such as myself to get a fair rental price in order to amortize their investment. I just don't want to make the situation any worse by bringing new cameras into the rental market if I don't have to.

There is actually a rental company in Los Angeles advertising "Free REDs". CamTec Motion Picture Cameras recently sent me this e-mail flyer, and I quote: "In order to facilitate a single-source vendor for your digital production, CamTec is offering an exciting new proposal: through the end of the year, when you rent a full camera package, we will provide the Red FREE OF CHARGE." So the camera has become a lost leader to promote the rental of lenses and accessories. Many aspiring Cinematographers are also offering their camera packages, as well as their labor, free of charge in order to get a chance to get credits and footage for their reels. This is all well and good, but it makes it that much tougher for people like me to recoup their investment, and make a living.

It also occurs to me that many RED Owners who had anticipated more work for their cameras may need to consider selling them as the current financial mess wears on. This could be a good alternative for them, and save my client many thousands of dollars.

So, Still Looking...

James Mathers
Cinematographer
RED Owner #30X
President, Digital Cinema Society
Mathers at DigitalCinemaSociety dot org

Hi James,

I would love to meet or talk to these DP's since I'm shooting a series of commercials and a up-coming feature - a free DP w/t gear. Nice deal.
So, far I have no luck finding these "Free" deals of such. I don't seem how they would benefit from this except credits...but that doesn't pay the bills. As I ex. Producer, I love to find deals...but i want to find a experience DP with gear or without to build a relationship as a team player then...a free package deal.

Who are these guys/girls???

thanks.