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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Steel, aluminum, or carbon rods?

Stephen Pruitt

Stephen Pruitt

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Hi all. . .

Our REDs are pretty heavy, and, with my order of the EVF, about to get heavier still. It seems to me that about the only way to shave weight without killing functionality would be to drop the heavy steel support rods for something much lighter in weight.

But the steel rods are very, very heavy-duty, too. Can anyone give me any advice as to if the weight/expense ratio of the aluminum or carbon fiber rods is really worth it? Will we actually feel the difference in the weight? Are the aluminum and carbon rods sturdy enough for daily use?

Thanks very much.

Stephen
 
Can't tell you about the carbon fiber, but I have ET rods and they are lighter than RED steel rods by a lot. Those RED rods are heavy.

More bizarre, but true - I found some 3/4" poplar wood dowels at Lowe's fit the 19mm almost perfectly and are lighter than the ET's. $2. Good for top rods. Also good for testing rod sizes.
 
I have not used Reds CF rods, but I have a set I've been using for a few years (no idea where I even got them, ebay maybe? Maybe they came with a dovetail I bought) they are great. Super stiff, you will get the least amount of flex from the Carbon rods. I also have a set of ET's rods and they are great, light. They are aluminum, and they behave like it.

Nick
 
I use the RED steel rods for heavy loads, and the ET aluminum rods for mid-weight to lighter loads. I have different complete sets of 15mm and 19mm rods, in all lengths, in both steel and aluminum, because I use each at times. For giant heavy lenses like the Optimo 24-290 I use RED 19mm 24" steel rods. For my Canon FD 150-600 zoom (9lbs) and RED 300mm (8lbs) I use ET aluminum 15mm 18" rods. On the top of RED One I always use ET aluminum 15mm 12" rods.

Though they're very light, the ET aluminum rods are quite strong. For all handleld work I use the aluminum rods.

I haven't used the RED carbon fiber rods but I have handled them and they are very light, and I assume strong for most uses except extremely cold temperatures where CF can be brittle.
 
Gibby said:
...For giant heavy lenses like the Optimo 24-290 I use RED 19mm 24" steel rods. For my Canon FD 150-600 zoom (9lbs) and RED 300mm (8lbs) I use ET aluminum 15mm 18" rods. On the top of RED One I always use ET aluminum 15mm 12" rods...
Click to expand...

Does the Red 300mm need to be fixed to rods at the front, or is that only when using gears etc ?
 
ronx said:
Does the Red 300mm need to be fixed to rods at the front, or is that only when using gears etc ?
Click to expand...

To avoid unnecessary strain on the PL mount, I would recommend using support rods with the RED 300 at all times.

The RED 300 has a rotating support collar near the barrel end of the lens with a support screw hole in it. I use my ET-made ARRI 19mm bridge plate with 19mm rods and the RED universal bridge there is a small gap between the bridge and the lens support collar. I would assume RED will be making a small bracket to bridge that gap, but my workaround has been to simply get a long screw to run from the universal bridge adaptor up to the bottom of the lend support collar.

Because of the relatively light weight of the RED 300, I have found that the 15mm aluminum rods are more than enough to support the lens, so I use my ET-made 15mm ARRI bridge plate on the tripod, the 15mm ET aluminum rods, and a custom support bracket I had from former kits of mine to support the lens from beneath via the lens collar. My custom bracket has a built-in telescoping support screw in it.

The ET-made ARRI bridge plates are sold by RED. You can find them in the RED Store on the RED web site. Alternately, I've used the RED plate, with it's 19mm rod capability to support the RED 300 with rods.

Because of the mobility of my sports and nature shooting with the RED 300, and the need to carry the equipment long distances, I never use that lens with a follow focus or matte box. I work the focus and iris gears by hand. Likewise when shooting sports and nature with the Canon 150-600, I never use a FF or matte box. The lens has a built-in lever on the left side that pushes/pulls for zoom, and the same lever twists to rack focus. The iris is via a manual twist of iris wheel on the Century PL mount converter.
 
Shaving some weight off the camera?
Yes the camera is heavy in relate to video though compare to film is not.
I would take the battery of the top mount, this cradle is horrible it is in the way to the round control panel, yes you can top mount it but still.
So I would think of having the battery with a cable just next to the camera like most of film cameras has and you can plug it to a heavy load 12V brick battery that will last much longer than the Red batteries.
As for the rods a few years ago I went to a alum-metal shop and got from them a few 15mm light weight alum rods cut them into various lengths, conned them at the edges, for hand-held camera. I was sure they would bend in a short time but to my surprise they are still in use.
I will try to find 19mm alum rods. They were not cheap but much cheaper than the one you will buy from Red or ET.
Where do you think these guys are getting them from? the very same store. Only color will be different but that wouldn't mater for the script or the image.
 
Thanks much, guys. . .

I guess I'll break down and try them. . . maybe ET's first. . . see if they are stiff enough for me. I'd love to save money. After all, I'm one of the ones using the Nikons.

Stephen
 
gdv said:
I would take the battery of the top mount, this cradle is horrible it is in the way to the round control panel, yes you can top mount it but still.
So I would think of having the battery with a cable just next to the camera like most of film cameras has and you can plug it to a heavy load 12V brick battery that will last much longer than the Red batteries.
Click to expand...

Pretty much how I have my camera set up now. I haven't adapted to a marine battery yet but I easily could. One cable away. There's just no reason to have the battery on the camera. I hang it from the tripod or my belt. My interface area is clear.

I just wish I could lighten that EVF up somehow. It's almost as big as an EX1 all by itself.
 
Gibby said:
To avoid unnecessary strain on the PL mount, I would recommend using support rods with the RED 300 at all times.
Click to expand...

I would *defintely* second what Gibby had said regarding this. The RED PL mount is particularly sensitive to this because it is made of multiple threaded parts. It's basically built like a prime lens.

Remember, it's not just the weight it's the leverage. I'm sure the RED PL mount can hold the 300mm without damage just sitting there on the head. But cameras that shoot, are cameras that move around and get bumped. And when that happens much greater forces that the weight of that lens are going to bear on the PL mount's threads. At the very least you risk throwing off the FFD, even worse, throwing off the flatness.

An lens that has an interface for a lens support *should* be used with a lens support. Usually anything longer than a 180mm prime needs to be supported.

Regarding CF rods, I like them, they are "trick" and light and strong. But an impact that would not damage a steel rod will crack a CF rod. It's happened to me. Anybody want to buy *one* ARRI 15mm CF rod?

I think the potential for damage to the roundness of the rod is much greater because the resin holding the carbon fibers together is nowhere near as hard as stainless steel.

Aluminum is about halfway between the two (Steel and CF) in terms of hardness and less stiff than either. Aluminum rods should always be hard coat anodized. They can't be effectively ground so they are not as round as steel rods.
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
Thanks much, guys. . .

I guess I'll break down and try them. . . maybe ET's first. . . see if they are stiff enough for me. I'd love to save money. After all, I'm one of the ones using the Nikons.

Stephen
Click to expand...

You'll be very happy with the ET rods. Every bit as strong and rigid as steel rods IMHO. And a whole lot lighter.

M
 
I love my ET rods,
I own 2 sets of 12" and 2 sets of 18"
and as much as i do love em, they do not support a zoom lens.
My Cooke 20-100 is flexing the hell out of the 18" ET rods.
So much that my mattbox no longer aligns properly.

They easily have more then 1" inch of travel. Dont get me wrong,
I love the weight of them, but the reality is that they just cannot hold as well
as steel rods, its just physics.
 
Ditch the cradle. Get ET rods.

I have all those rods including Carbon X. I am not into the Carbon X only because I like putting my Microforce cable THROUGH the rods, and the Carbon X rods have covers on their ends =]
 
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