Steadicam opinions?

[Scott C]

Hi folks,

I hope I haven't missed something obvious here, but I have a Scarlet on order and I am looking into setting up a steadicam/glidecam/etc. rig; I figured the EPIC crowd would know best what works and what doesn't! I am looking to keep things under $4000 if possible, so if you have any suggestions please share! Thanks for your input

 

[Erich Ocean]

On a lighter camera (10 pounds an under), I really like the Pilot. You can fly that thing all day.

Taking a steadicam class is recommended. I think the one I took was $500, and well worth it, even just as a director, since it gave me a ton of insight into how too block a steadicam shot, and what can be done.

 

[Paul Russell]

I'm going through the same process. So far I've learnt to stay away from Basson and Movcam. How's this for an opinion?

Currently I'm trying to find out from Curt Schaller whether the Artemis DV Pro MD would be sufficient. Or looking for a secondhand EFP unit.

An Epic with a decent lens, follow focus and matte box is likely to come in over 10lb. The brain alone wieighs 5lb so by the time you add lens, rails, follow focus, top screen, mattebox, a cage, quick release mount, lcd screen, batteries, DSMC Side handle and a dual battery mount I reckon we'll be somewhere between 12-18lb.

 

[Martin Stevens]

I vote for GLIDECAM.

But then I'm quite biased.

 

[Andrew Gentle]

On a lighter camera (10 pounds an under), I really like the Pilot. You can fly that thing all day.

I quite liked the look of the Pilot, until Scarlet ended up costing double what I thought it would, haha. Has anybody ever seen an EPIC being flown on a Pilot? You'd need to have a power connector wired in to the existing battery set up (or just use the side handle) and a Decimator or something to get the video signal down to the monitor, right?

Joseph mounted a prototype on it but it wasn't connected properly

 

[Scott C]

I vote for GLIDECAM.

But then I'm quite biased.

Thanks for you guys' input. Martin, do you have a particular model you would recommend for a not-too-heavily-kitted Scarlet? Prefer something vest-mounted..

 

[Martin Stevens]

Thanks for you guys' input. Martin, do you have a particular model you would recommend for a not-too-heavily-kitted Scarlet? Prefer something vest-mounted..

Take a look at the Glidecam X-22, or the Glidecam X-10.

The X-10 will work with a camera package up 10 pounds, which might be a little on the
light side for your Scarlet setup.

Do you know what the weight of your camera setup is or will be?

 

[Nick Gardner]

As a guy who has operated steadicam for something like 15 years, save your money. Honestly, you'll get better results shooting 4k handheld and using warp stabilizer than you will with little experience on less than top notch rig. I am not kidding at all. You really will get better results.

Nick

 

[Paul Russell]

Warp is great if you've got plenty of room around the frame for it reach into. So Nick's suggestion above is a good idea if you're rendering down to HD. So long as you've got plenty of computer power as stabilising short clips can eat into processing time a lot.

I get really smooth walking around results with the DV-Tec Extreme Deluxe shoulder rig, which has a spring loaded pole that attaches on to the front, helping support the camera and also absorb a lot of the bobbing movement as you walk around. It's built like a tank, too. http://www.dvtec.tv/extreme-rig.html. If you shoot with that and use Warp you'll get very smooth images with lower software stabilisation times.

 

[Mark Britton]

A used Steadicam Flyer or Flyer LE in good condition would sell for around your budget. Flyer will manage around 15lbs, Flyer LE up to about 19lbs if memory serves. You'll likely want a price in a SD downconverter (e.g. Redbyte Decimator), as most used Flyers are likely to have a SD monitor. We'll ignore the question of wireless follow focus for the moment, and assume that you plan on using wide angle lenses and be stopping down apeture as much as is reasonable to do so to help alleviate the need for a focus puller and make operating easier on yourself while you are learning.

Get yourself a copy of the Steadicam Operator's Handbook written by Jerry Holway (regardless of what brand rig you end up in). If you can find a workshop that you can get to, definately do take one. And then practice, practice, practice!

Becoming a good camera stabilization rig operator is somewhat analogous to learning a martial art. You have to learn to move and cordinate your body with the camera on a rig in a way that is different than what you've likely experienced before. Bad Steadicam operation can look pretty crap, as a previous poster mentioned. It's not a magic wand. But if you do a tolerable job of it, what he suggested (stabilization in post) is of course, applicable to footage that comes off a rig as well.

Only buy a rig if you really mean to train and use it long term. Yeah, it's cool and all, but it won't make you rich, and $4,000 buys a lot of accessories that can add a lot to the usefulness of your camera package.

 

[Steve Das]

...You'll likely want a price in a SD downconverter (e.g. Redbyte Decimator), as most used Flyers are likely to have a SD monitor...

Yes..they do mostly have SD monitors. But why downconvert ? Why not just go with an HD monitor...or is there problem attaching one..?

 

[Mark Britton]

It is possible to replace a Tiffen SD monitor on the Flyer. An important piece of information to be aware of is that a Flyer's wiring harness terminates in a 9-pin DIN connector for the monitor on the sled. So you will need to build an adaptor cable (or have one built for you), or do a little surgery on the wiring harness. Do what you are comfortable with. Tiffen offered a HD monitor as an upgrade for the Flyer, but if I recall, it ran around $4,000, so I suspect it was fairly rare on the uptake.

The Flyer monitor is mounted on a 1/4" 20 threaded screw, so a monitor that has a 1/4-20 mounting point on the bottom is a possibility.

Steadicam operators are particular about monitors. In brief, brightness is a big concern (viewability of a monitor that is essentially facing up into the sun when operating outdoors). Capability to flip the image in the monitor is pretty important if you plan on operating in 'low mode'. And since you'll be looking at the monitor from all kinds of angles, acceptable viewing angle of an LCD is a pretty big deal as well.

If you have an HD-SDI monitor already, and don't mind a fairly tame adventure in custom cabling, go for it. Just don't break anything you can't fix (or have fixed). Downconverters are cheaper than a new HD-SDI monitor that will work decently as a Steadicam monitor, and the uncommon connector makes a downconverter a technically simpler path. That's the only reason I mentioned a downconverter.

Edit: And do be sure that your monitor will accept an unregulated DC voltage that might range from 9V-18V (or higher if it's a 24V wired rig). If a monitor wants exactly 5V DC in, no more, no less....you will almost certainly kill your monitor.

 

[Alan Rencher]

As a Steadicam operator myself, the advice I would give is that if you have to ask these questions, you shouldn't be buying a Steadicam. Do what other people have suggested. Take a class first, buy the Steadicam operator's handbook, try renting rigs for awhile, and do a lot of research. You can always rent for a while until you have all the knowledge you will need to get into it. I hope this helps.

 

[thomas-english]

I am with Alan here. Do a course and rent a coupla rigs.

If your gonna Steadicam professionally your going to need to factor in the quad charger, Pro I/O box, Cooke lenses, LMB5 and a Preston/C-Motion/Bartech. I think this will quickly get into and past arri SR3 territory.

Steadicam Archer is the lightest weight rig I'd ever use in anger. I have a Zephyr kicking about only as a practice rig for when I get back from the pub drunk. you could get the lightest weight MK-V setup and upgrade it slowly over time (what I did originally and thoroughly recomend) or you can go with one of Kurts rigs at Satchler which feel nice.

I suspect on your own work with a Bartech and plastic mattbox you'll get away with a Zephyr.

 

[thomas-english]

Oh.. I just read your $4000 price bracket... What you doing trying to put $40,000 upwards with lenses on a $4000 rig? Crazy Talk!

N.B. I still use a downconverter and often a TB6 green screen monitor thats 15 years old and uses the same green monitor thats used in a tank. Currently there is only one HD transmitter thats acceptable and thats the Boxx @ $10,000 .. There is no better monitor in the sun.

 

[Imran Farouk]

Yeah, I'd have to agree here with the idea of classes, been thinking of taking one for a while on stedicam, purely because I've been told that if you haven't taken a class and you just think picking one up and going is as simple as that (most the body harness ones) then your in for a world of hurt...

Then again that maybe over blown? I'm not sure, classes on equipment though isn't a bad idea, especially when its strapped to you

 

[Philippe Van Horebeek]

Mark, Alan and Thomas said it all. So stabilizing software is a good option for the moment I think. A $4000 budget is simply not big enough for a descent rig 2nd hand. Your minimum would probably (if it's from Tiffen) something like the Archer. Bare in mind to add the weight of a descend lens, follow focus, convertor, ..... and the need for sufficient connectors to power everything. Those things are a far more important consideration than the low weight of a Scarlet or Epic.
If you are really serious about steadicam, then use your budget for a steadicam workshop as mentioned. It is the best start you can ever get ! It wont make you an operator though. To become one you need to practice a lot and doing countless steadicam jobs.
But don't let this discourage you if that is what you want to do !

 

[Trevor Meeks]

As a Steadicam operator myself, the advice I would give is that if you have to ask these questions, you shouldn't be buying a Steadicam.

Word.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Word.

+1 - anyone can operate a steadi-cam for an hour or so... but all day on a shoot? HIRE A PRO! best $ you will ever spend and take the savings and put it in a SCREENWRITING CLASS if you are an indie filmmaker. content, not gear, is KING.. or spend the $ on a new website for marketing your services.

Steadi- ops are a special breed and all that $ goes on screen.

That all said, I have an FS-PRO from Belgium that flies lightweight cameras up to 20lbs with arm and vest and is really well built. A great FIRST stabliizer if that is your interest... only $1500 and is like new, solidly built, adjustable gimble and as good as Glidecam or Low End Steadi for a lot less $.

I bought it for that reason. To offer low budget indies an affordable rig but the thigh burn from good steadi work turned me off quickly.

 

[J. P. Morgan]

+1 - anyone can operate a steadi-cam for an hour or so... but all day on a shoot? HIRE A PRO! best $ you will ever spend and take the savings and put it in a SCREENWRITING CLASS if you are an indie filmmaker. content, not gear, is KING.. or spend the $ on a new website for marketing your services.

Steadi- ops are a special breed and all that $ goes on screen.

That all said, I have an FS-PRO from Belgium that flies lightweight cameras up to 20lbs with arm and vest and is really well built. A great FIRST stabliizer if that is your interest... only $1500 and is like new, solidly built, adjustable gimble and as good as Glidecam or Low End Steadi for a lot less $.

I bought it for that reason. To offer low budget indies an affordable rig but the thigh burn from good steadi work turned me off quickly.

Where would one go about purchasing one of the FS-PRO stabilizers? a quick google search didn't turn up much....
did they go out of business?