Starting out as a RED DIT

[David Kruta]

I'm looking to get into the DIT field a bit more seriously, and was hoping I could get some advice. I've browsed many of the threads on here, and much of it was useful, but a lot of it seems geared to those that are more established.

I've been shooting on RED for over a year now, as a DP and AC. On many low budget shoots, I've had to be my own DIT. Recently, I was hired as a DIT for a short, and after listening to Brook Willard's great interview on RedCentre, reading a bit on here and taking what I knew as a DP, I think I did a good job, although there's much more I could learn.

I apologize for my newbie questions, but we all have to start somewhere.

My main questions are:

What's a typical workflow from raw media to finish?

What's a typical conversation with a DP like during a talk about lighting?

[EDIT] What about color correction/on-set-grading? I've heard 3cp is the norm. Anything less expensive? Any insight into this process?

What are a day's overall responsibilities, from setup to breakdown?

Recommendations for audio backup, logging, etc?

How does a DIT get work, market themselves, etc?

What should I have in my equipment kit? I currently have the basics: MacBook Pro 17" w/ eSATA Card, several 1.5tb HDDs, FW800 CF reader, Panasonic LH1700w monitor, battery-powered surge protector, various cables and such.

What should I have for software? I currently have Final Cut Studio 3, RedAlert, RedRushes, RedCine, Adobe CS4 Suite and Crimson. I've tried the Cineform NEO4k package, and read that I should have R3D Data Manager or ShotPut.

Please keep in mind that I can't go out and buy everything at once, so recommendations how best to build the kit and skills at a reasonable pace would be helpful.

If there's anything I missed, please let me know. I learn fast and have a lot of questions, so I appreciate any responses in advance!

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Get a RED Rocket™™ and Breakout Box

Get a RED Rocket™™ and Breakout Box

Get a RED Rocket™™ and a breakout box. You don't strictly need it, but it will make your life SO much easier.

Especially on a Macbook Pro. Processing power there is already in short supply.

Also, you should have some way to give the gaffer and DP/or operator a hardware based waveform and vectorscope. I think your monitor offers this, but if it doesn't you may want to upgrade to one that does.

As a DP I do ask for occasional on set "first lights" grading, but its usually more of a quality check than anything I expect burned in.

I also expect a lot of support from the DIT in setting up my look- which is usually RED Cine work resulting in settings I can input to the camera, so that my initial metadata is right. That's usually a good chunk of work at the start of a shoot, followed by checkups at the start of day, after lunch and at the end of day.

I also expect the DIT to support ingest... and on many shoots this means setting supervising, and occasionally executing a transcode to a REC709 format. (ProRes 422 or 422 HQ most of the time, sometimes DNxHD)

There is no typical workflow going from camera to disk. I can tell you I usually like to see a copy of the RED Raw footage on a disk, and a transcoded REC709 version, which varies based on the post plan. The REC709 version may serve as dailies.

The DIT doesn't typically talk to the DP about lighting. They should listen in on the DP's talks with the Gaffer and Key, to get an idea of the intent.

If you do talk to the DP about lighting it will be early in the shoot while the DP does their testing of the camera. Then you should have ready advice about the dynamic range, EI and filtration needed for the camera. Keep it fact based, with information based on your empirical observations in camera tests.

If you hear the DP call for, as an example, a light that's six over key, well that's a time to pipe up and ask if that's the result they want. Usually I'd ask the operator though. Let the operator bring it to the DP.

If the DP is the operator, then ask the number two person in camera. (Usually the B camera operator or A cams 1AC if there is no B cam.) Those people will have a better idea than you do about when its cool to get the DP's attention and talk tech for a minute.

Mostly though you will execute technical camera functions to support the DP & Director in their objectives. The DP wants a desaturated look that is skewed towards green, get the camera settings that set the metadata for that result, share that with the 1AC, Operator and DP. Unless they ask, keep your opinions of that choice to yourself. Its just metadata in any case.

You are responsible for supporting the 1st and 2nd AC's in keeping the camera running. That may include training them on what routing procedures are needed. Formating media, changing camera settings etc. What maintenance they should be doing, and how... that sort of thing. Remember though that stuff is the AC's job, so you should be supporting/training not doing the work.

Logging is the job of the 2AC or clapper, Script Super and Ingest. Support them, mostly by pointing out when you've had to change the camera's setup. The AC's and operator should already be aware, as you should let them know before you make a change, and after you've completed the change.

That's just a start. Its based on my experience as a DP. I haven't worked as a DIT.

I do like having a DIT, but I rely on my camera department number 2 (an operator or 1AC) for most of my creative input. I encourage everyone being critical and asking questions. I consider the DIT a training position for 1AC and operator positions, or for a switch over to editorial and post. I like to make sure that all my crew has an opportunity to learn. I am also sort of famous for giving people opportunities to do other jobs. I might give a DIT or clapper trigger time. I might ask a DIT to show a 2AC a bit about their work, etc.

Just remember that there is a time for collegial behavior, and a time to execute the DP's instructions. I definitely don't want to call "camera ready" and have the DIT yell out, "No! This highlight is too hot!" in front of the whole crew. I've seen that happen, it just makes everyone look bad- so don't do it, even if its absolutely true. Be discreet, and follow the chain.

Most DP's have different desires, and styles of working with crew. DIT is a newish position and some DP's will think you are just a pain in their ass telling them how to do their job. I've been 1AC or B cam on shoots (both RED and other cameras) where this was an issue. Just do your job quietly and be ready for anything if this is the case. Again, talking mostly to the camera department personnel and not the DP can help alleviate this tension.

Some DP's will be the opposite, standing at your side and chatting you up about every detail of the shoot. I'm not that sort, but sometimes the DIT has the best monitoring.

 

[Pedro Guimaraes]

my .02 cents....

my .02 cents....

Well.....

I now worked plenty of red jobs along with a lot of phantom work, some sony, Si2k, genesis projects so far. I've also worked with weiscam and iconix.

In fact for the last year or so all of my RED DIT work was in 3D. 3D is my specialty and definitely keeps you even busier on set. I've worked as a DIT on a production this year using 3 Red 3D rigs....that 6 cameras! Alot of loading and media managment! I was working with HD's, Red RAM and a shitload of Cf cards....organization is key! preparation is even more vital...

In fact I'm in my hotel room in Louisiana as I write this 4 weeks into a RED 3D feature.

Since the DIT role is kinda new and does not yet have a "legacy structure", in my experience my involvement/job/responsibility are kinda different on every job. Of course some things are the same.

To me the most important part of your job is not your gear. Hell, your list is already bigger/better than mine. The most important part of your job is how well you can work with others and how well you can integrate yourself into the camera team.

Usually (if I'm lucky enough) my job starts in pre-production talking with the DP and "others" about the camera package, things I need etc... Then talking to the post production team about what the final deliverable is in order to establish a workflow that works for them and most importantly that me as the on set DIT brings them back proper material that will flow into the pipeling properly and the looks the best it can.

Usually (but not always) that's followed followed by a camera test. Then the most important part for me is getting to know and establish a good working relationship with the camera crew figure out how we going to work together. Establish what they want me to do and not do. This avoids me stepping on any toes and I can get a feel for everybody's level of experience with the camera and expectations etc...

Realistically I think most of the value for having a DIT is in pre-production planing/testing. Then on set to insure proper creation of the files he promised to post. So I make it my priority to know alot about post-production in order to know how to layout workflow's and suggest plans etc.....and the only way to insure your best performance during production is to work well with the camera team.

Because no matter how much you know and want to help, if the camera team hates you, is annoyed by you, feel threatened by you etc....you will not be able to perform your job correctly and you will not be hired again. You need to be part of the camera team to be able to add your value to the production. That's the bottom line.



as far as you questions;

What's a typical workflow from raw media to finish?

---For me there is rarely a typical workflow.

What's a typical conversation with a DP like during a talk about lighting?

---Depends on job but usually I advise the DP in pre-production about any exposure considerations etc....on set I stay out of his way for the most part. On my own I usually keep my eye on the histogram during shooting. If possible I keep my eye on a waveform etc.... If I see anything that is clearly a issue then hopefully if I did my job correctly I have the rapport with the DP or crew to be able to whisper in their ear if they noticed "blah blah blah"..... because you never know they might be doing that intentially.

But most of all if you did your job right in initial conversations then there will be few problems for your to deal with.

What about color correction/on-set-grading? I've heard 3cp is the norm. Anything less expensive? Any insight into this process?

First of all, I know alot of DIT's are all about this.As far as on set color services....depending on the client I often advise against it. It tends to slow many Directors or DP's down by distracting them, taking up valuable production time and slowing the day down.

My theory and advice is, it's best to leave production time to actually "production of material" and not to take up expensive production time with something that is mostly a post production operation. Some guys get extremely distracted by it and then later get upset because they didn't shoot everything they needed on the day.

That said, I usually do some amount of CC if requested at the end of the day maybe on a specific scene or take if they ask for it as reference for post or inspiration or for the art dept or somthing.

What are a day's overall responsibilities, from setup to breakdown?

Like I said they change from job to job.Mainly it's all about one thing, get post footage that slides into the workflow and hopefully looks great. That can mean many different things with different cameras and crews.

On some jobs I was really busy with a variety of tasks....and on some I mostly stayed out of the way and was not so busy.

Recommendations for audio backup, logging, etc?

Just stop by the audio cart and collect the logs & tapes :yesnod:
otherwise, same procedures as your footage....

How does a DIT get work, market themselves, etc?

For me........word of mouth......from successful gig to another...

What should I have in my equipment kit? I currently have the basics: MacBook Pro 17" w/ eSATA Card, several 1.5tb HDDs, FW800 CF reader, Panasonic LH1700w monitor, battery-powered surge protector, various cables and such.

Like I said, you already have more than me.......sound like a great kit!
Other than that, you can spend money on gear until your green in the face......do you wanna make money or spend it?Me,I have a laptop, and a pelican full of my small secret items/tools that are invaluable on set to support reds and other digital cameras. Sorry but the contents is my secret sauce.:yesnod:

The rest of the items you list get rented by the production after I advise them what is needed....usually.Besides some of that gear looses it's value. I'd rather invest in training and saving up towards my steadicam.It generally makes more sense to rent all that.Time to sleep, I just got back from a 76 hour week and I'm sleepy. Frankly not sure how I actually wrote all this......must be the lack of sleep.Hope this helps,

 

[David Kruta]

Thanks for the responses, you guys rock!

Alexander-

Could you elaborate on the "breakout box"? What is it, how does it fit into my workflow, etc.

My monitor has a waveform. I love it.

Could you elaborate on the RedCine and camera settings process?

Good points on staying out of the DP's way, and supporting the camera team. I do that already, but I'm glad you emphasized it. The chain-of-command breakdown was helpful as well.

Pedro-

How did you learn what you know as a DIT? How did you get started?

Thanks again for the info!

 

[Chris Ratledge]

Okay, I'm gonna piggyback on this topic as well, cause I'm interested in DIT work too. Good information so far.

I'm a former 600 AC who worked (or tried to) in the midwest up through 2006. Most of my work was as a 2nd AC, which was pretty rare to be honest, in the majority commercial spot markets of IN/OH/KY. Seemed like a fully-crewed camera team was never in the budget for most local productions, and I mostly found work on big jobs with multi-cameras or high-priced out of town talent or big-budget productions shooting locally. It ultimately became completely unsustainable working about 2-3 days per month and I had to pursue other things since then. I’ve downsized my lifestyle a bit and the other pursuits have proven futile if not just dumb, and they leave me feeling overworked and unfulfilled, so I’m now looking to get back on set...

...IF and that’s a BIG IF, the following are relevant:
- The DIT position is needed and consistently hired for local productions.
- The initial equipment investment is affordable*
- I can find training and information to build experience and meet production expectations.

I’ve been told there is a real need for a local DIT by some local production folks, but I clearly need to get more information, because that doesn’t address HOW much this is needed - in other words, how much work could I realistically suspect to get working as a local DIT? Some suggested I inquire about RED DIT training with Fletcher Chicago, but Fletcher no longer offers it as there is no return on their investment, and there doesn’t appear to be anyone else in the area (say up to 500 miles from Indy) working as a DIT, to learn from or shadow, and why would they want to train your competition anyway?

I don’t have the budget or time to travel to LA or Vegas for classes with REDucation, which would require me to wait until April to attend. (I can’t even find a price listed on their website) I have been reading this BBS quite a bit but quite frankly am a bit overwhelmed as it almost sounds like a lot of insider information at this point. A lot of new terminology and technology to ingest. Thankfully I have an offer from a local DP who owns a couple of REDs to give me an introduction to the system, but translating this into on-set work still appears to be a mysterious and daunting task, as I have to meet expectations for a position about which I know very little, and no real way to learn it here and now.

Most of what Alexander and Pedro have said here is pretty common knowledge to anyone who has years of on-set, if not camera department experience, save for some of the specific expectations of the DIT as it is such a new position on set, and is also exemplary of the the differing approaches and opinions of protocol and working experience within camera dept. personnel. One answer you’ve both stated is there is no common workflow. This is obvious, but even in the varying experience and productions, there must be some commonalities, if not in what is requested of you per production, but common approaches or ideals if it was your call. So how about this - Single camera commercial spot production, a mix of location and stage over a couple of days, with a post house you are familiar with and have sent materials to before if not often. What would be some EXAMPLES of workflows you’ve experienced in situations like this? What would you do when it’s you’re call to come up with the workflow given my above hypothetical production, with whatever common assumptions you deem necessary (even if it would never in reality be your call)



*Most freelancers in these Midwestern markets seem to be expected to supply much more than those in LA/NYC would be to perform their jobs, relying less on rental-house supplied items. I have limited resources at this time and I’m not going to build a bunch of debt for what may be another failed business venture; have all these tools stated as necessary by those answering in this thread, only to find them ultimately a waste of my money if they don’t help me get and keep my gigs. Affordable is pretty intangible at the moment.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Thanks for the responses, you guys rock!

Alexander-

Could you elaborate on the "breakout box"? What is it, how does it fit into my workflow, etc.

My monitor has a waveform. I love it.

Could you elaborate on the RedCine and camera settings process?

Good points on staying out of the DP's way, and supporting the camera team. I do that already, but I'm glad you emphasized it. The chain-of-command breakdown was helpful as well.

Pedro-

How did you learn what you know as a DIT? How did you get started?

Thanks again for the info!

David , sign up for the nex tReducation, it will pay for itself. meantime, its always best to think in "reverse" with RED.

What is your intended delivery format? always best to work backwards from there.

 

[PatC]

What should I have in my equipment kit? I currently have the basics: MacBook Pro 17" w/ eSATA Card, several 1.5tb HDDs, FW800 CF reader, Panasonic LH1700w monitor, battery-powered surge protector, various cables and such.

Some goodies I would add is doubles of every cable, Drive cable, EVF lemo, LCD Lemo, USB-2, FW800, Esata, ETC.

Sensor loupe & Artic Butterfly

idk thats all that came to my head right now.

 

[Stephen Williams]

If you hear the DP call for, as an example, a light that's six over key,

Hi,

Just curious but have you ever heard anybody ask for a light that's six over key. Be pretty hard to achieve other than the sun through a window, sounds like they would want to burn out!

Stephen

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

your DIT set up can be.. anywhere from 3-4 grand (on the low low budget)
MACBOOK PRO, RAID, SOME ESATA/firewire 800 bus cards...

to 10-20,000 grand.. mac pro, large Raid, cart, battery back up, + other shit..

youll want a backup to everything.. I have 2 macbook pros, and a fast macpro..
Last thing you want is your comp going down on set.


heres the problem.. most productions wont pay a decent kit rental..

 

[David Kruta]

Some goodies I would add is doubles of every cable, Drive cable, EVF lemo, LCD Lemo, USB-2, FW800, Esata, ETC.

Sensor loupe & Artic Butterfly

idk thats all that came to my head right now.

Good call. I've been meaning to get the sensor loupe and Artic Butterfly as soon as work picks up again.

 

[Randy Lee]

Chris,

There is a DIT who works out of Milwaukee (Only an hour from Chicago), Jason Helgren, who is (I believe) the owner of The Coloring Room. I've also seen him posting here on Reduser. From the times that I've met him, he seems like a great guy, and might be willing to meet up and give you some pointers if you ask. Maybe not, since he would be training competition, but hey, don't ask don't get, right? And if you know and understand RED already, it could be that just seeing someone's setup would get you to the point that you could get paying gigs, which could then pay for Reducation. Best of luck to you, and keep asking questions - I learn more from every thread like this, and am going to be getting in on the action within a year or two.

 

[AaronPicot]

using a MBP to make offline

using a MBP to make offline

What should I have in my equipment kit? I currently have the basics: MacBook Pro 17" w/ eSATA Card, several 1.5tb HDDs, FW800 CF reader, Panasonic LH1700w monitor, battery-powered surge protector, various cables and such.
[/B]

I tried working with only my MBP on set. Making the offline files/dailies is the killer. Red Rushes just pegs your processors to do its thing. Even connected to eSATA drives, it outputs about 1 frame per second--NO GOOD! On the MacPro, RR exports about 25 frames/sec to the eSATA drives--much more reasonable. Plus, I have the older MPB with the FW400 port only, not the 800, so it makes my FW800 CF reader obsolete (or the FW800 connections on the RED DRIVEs for that matter); having to go through the 400 port just bottlenecks everything. I would have to take work home at night since transpo guys want to pull power on you and haul the trucks away about 15 seconds after wrap. Love you, transpo!

Pedro, are you using a different (faster?) method to make the offline files? Are you making the offline files? Dailies?

Thanks,
AP

 

[David Kruta]

I tried working with only my MBP on set. Making the offline files/dailies is the killer. Red Rushes just pegs your processors to do its thing. Even connected to eSATA drives, it outputs about 1 frame per second--NO GOOD! On the MacPro, RR exports about 25 frames/sec to the eSATA drives--much more reasonable. Plus, I have the older MPB with the FW400 port only, not the 800, so it makes my FW800 CF reader obsolete (or the FW800 connections on the RED DRIVEs for that matter); having to go through the 400 port just bottlenecks everything. I would have to take work home at night since transpo guys want to pull power on you and haul the trucks away about 15 seconds after wrap. Love you, transpo!

Pedro, are you using a different (faster?) method to make the offline files? Are you making the offline files? Dailies?

Thanks,
AP

On shoots where budget and time is an issue, I'll usually spend most of my time backing up data and choosing a few takes here and there to work on looks. I have a somewhat old MBP but it does have the FW800 port, so FW800 to eSata backups go pretty quickly. Offline files, debayering, proxies, etc are done at the post facility, and if I have time to do some dailies overnight I'll edit together a little reel for the most recent day of shooting.

 

[Jason H]

thanks for the shout out randy!

Jason H

 

[AaronPicot]

Offline files, debayering, proxies, etc are done at the post facility, and if I have time to do some dailies overnight I'll edit together a little reel for the most recent day of shooting.

That sounds great, too bad that's not my reality. Check this out: they want dailies that is EVERYThing that was shot with sound sync (which I manually have to do the next day). Also we are shooting anamorphic, so I have to stretch the media 2x in RR to get the proper aspect ratio, THEN throw everything in a FCP timeline and export for DVD, then burn 7 copies. No short amount of time when your turing out DVDs that are 4 hours of media each.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

That sounds great, too bad that's not my reality. Check this out: they want dailies that is EVERYThing that was shot with sound sync (which I manually have to do the next day). Also we are shooting anamorphic, so I have to stretch the media 2x in RR to get the proper aspect ratio, THEN throw everything in a FCP timeline and export for DVD, then burn 7 copies. No short amount of time when your turing out DVDs that are 4 hours of media each.

Not to pry, but is this client paying you properly for all of those services? In other words are they compensating you for the RR, as well as the other tools in your kit that are saving them from having to send this stuff out for dailies generation or even their own internal post time?

 

[Chris Ratledge]

Thanks, I'll do so. Though I wouldn't think we'd be much competition for each other being so far apart - at least I hope not.

I actually got a "RED 101" this past weekend and from the sounds of it what is the norm for DIT stuff around my potential markets is less complicated.

 

[Charles Nader]

How much does a DIT get? Flat rate or hourly? If you spent like 10K...I would imagine you would like to recoup your investment...

 

[Chris Ratledge]

How much does a DIT get? Flat rate or hourly? If you spent like 10K...I would imagine you would like to recoup your investment...

Well from my investigations so far in my markets, it appears that someone may have recently priced himself too high, so he moved on to a larger market where he could command $800 per day. That's highly speculative though.

I think it totally depends on your market, they type of productions, and the range of duties performed. That would also determine your hourly wage or a flat day rate. If you're doing lots of dailies renders and stuff on set (which you ideally shouldn't) I would hope you could command a much higher salary. Recouping your expenses ASAP should be priority 1 in my opinion! That's how I'm looking at this possibility right now.

 

[Ravi Kiran]

On the feature I worked on as a DIT, I had a Macbook Pro and two FW800 hard drives, to which I copied the footage via Shotput Pro. At the end of the day I copied the sound mixer's files from a CF card to the drives. I would do as many footage dumps as possible, so we didn't lose too much footage if something happened, and this way each dump took less time. The DP knew the RED pretty well, so he set the settings himself.

We had some camera problems so I'd also troubleshoot those, and facilitated getting a backup RED body while we sent ours off for repair.

The DP didn't want any LUTs, one-lights, etc. but he did want me to pull stills from the footage, so I did that for every setup. I would check the footage in RedCine to make sure it was there. Sometimes the camera would hiccup and I had to check if that last take was there.

I often used the 1:1 feature in RedCine to check fine focus or little details.

The assistant editor would then offload the RED footage to the internal drives on two Mac Pros and transcode from one internal drive to another internal. We never transcoded from the external drives. This process started when shooting wrapped for the day. He synced the audio using Sync-n-Link and logged the footage. He backed up the files to two external archive drives.

On the music video and corporate shoots I'd do one-lights in RedCine, especially if we had problems with color temperature, overexposure, etc. before the transcode.

This may or may not be a typical DIT duty, but I also helped with the post workflow, since we were editing with ProRes 422 files and grading in Color with the R3Ds. There were some issues with the workflow, but thankfully we got them sorted out.