Nick Timmons
Well-known member
Buying 15,000 RPM HDD's doesn't make any sense to me, unless you bought them before SSD's prevalent.
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Buying 15,000 RPM HDD's doesn't make any sense to me, unless you bought them before SSD's prevalent.
15000rpm drives do have their advantages. Their capacities are low, but seek times are faster than most 7200 and even 10K rpm drives and when paired with a reasonably good cacheing controller they can be a powerful solution for light and fast data requirements. Databases and such. Their low capacities and the fact they can't do large or streaming transfers any faster than larger drives with more platters and heads at slower RPMs makes them less valuable for the type of work we do in this business -- large video files.
I can't believe Apple ever sold that turd of a RAID card they have. So unlike them to ship such a dodgy piece of hardware. Never really fit the mold, but I guess if they were going to screw up, it was for the best with something like that than a higher profile product. And yes, I got burned by the RAID card as well. Ordered one with my '08 Mac Pro when it was launched with the system. Ugh. It hosed me several times.
I went with 2x512 Samsung 840 Pro SSDs.
Getting around 500 MB/s Read and Write. Seems like I might have done something incorrect. Speeds should be at least 600, up to 900 MB/s in theory...
Hey will, saw your other thread about the RAID not working. Not sure if you have it fixed or if this post came before...
Anyway, if the SSDs are in your drive bays in the Mac Pro, then that's exactly the speed you should expect. The Mac has 3Gbps SATA connectors, which means about 250MB/s maximum throughput for each connected drive/SSD. Doesn't matter that these SSDs are a lot faster. You would get close to 700MB/s with three of them and not much higher than that if you added a fourth because the onboard SATA host has an upper ceiling of about 800MB/s in your model Mac.
Hey will, saw your other thread about the RAID not working. Not sure if you have it fixed or if this post came before...
Anyway, if the SSDs are in your drive bays in the Mac Pro, then that's exactly the speed you should expect. The Mac has 3Gbps SATA connectors, which means about 250MB/s maximum throughput for each connected drive/SSD. Doesn't matter that these SSDs are a lot faster. You would get close to 700MB/s with three of them and not much higher than that if you added a fourth because the onboard SATA host has an upper ceiling of about 800MB/s in your model Mac.
Thanks Jeff for the clarification. I plan is to eventually put 4x drives. 800 MB/s is nothing to be upset about. 500 MB/s for that matter. Anything above the bottleneck for R3D footage. Wonder if the Dragon will need faster drives than 500 MB/s.
If I used a single 1TB SSD I should expect speeds of 250 MB/s?
So my RAID 0 isn't too bad actually. Good enough and gives me a 40 second boot, snapper program response and quicker shutdown. Plus I save some power and the RRX card uses at least 75w. Sometimes jumping my total power consumption to 400 watts which I'm a little worried about.
GTX 680
RRX Card
Caldigit USB 3 & eSATA Card
Caldigit HDONE Raid Card.
If you are connecting to the SATA connectors that are part of the Mac Pro, then yes, 250MB/s or thereabouts for "real-world" performance. That is per device channel or internal SATA connector. They're 3Gbps connectors, which works out like this:
3,000,000,000 bps / 10 bits per byte overhead / 1048576 bytes per MB = 286.1MB/s. That is the *MAXIMUM* possible throughput on the 3Gbps SATA connectors. Combine that with typical overhead concerns and the latency of the host, among other factors, I usually just say 250MB/s. It's a bit on the conservative side, but I usually find it to be quite accurate in most real-world scenarios.
As Tim Jones pointed out around here somewhere, he's using an ATTO R680 RAID controller. It offers 6Gbps SAS/SATA connectors, which will allow for your SSDs to operate at their full potential of 500+MB/s. You could use a card like that to drive them instead of attaching direct to the integrated SATA host, get dedicated hardware RAID support and full 6Gbps per channel.
The Mac Pro makes these sorts of things difficult. It's probably not worth it to change up what you have here just for the sake of a faster internal RAID, especially one that's going to be reasonably fast anyway if you expand to 4 devices. If you were to shake things up with a different SATA or RAID host adapter, then you would have to lose one of the cards you just listed or would have to go to some PCIe expansion and that gets expensive.
As for building software RAID sets in OSX via disk utility, there's no magic formula. I always start with totally bare drives, remove all partition data just to be sure, then just partition as needed and add drives to the RAID sets. You can play around with block sizing, but you probably don't want to stray from default on the OSX software RAIDs for most normal uses.
I noticed you use Windows to clear your disks. Does "Zero Out Data" in Disk Utility not do the job well?
Two completely different things. "Zero Out Data" writes zeroes to the partitioned and formatted space. This is a security and drive-checking feature.
Wiping the partition information from a utility like DiskPart (Windows), gpt (OSX) or fdisk (OSX version or windows version), is just that, it's removing the information from the header of the drive that defines partitions and how the drive is divided up. While Disk Utility (OSX) and Drive Management (Windows equivalent) are great tools, they actually can't dig into the lower levels of hard drive data structures and partition maps. Have to resort to command line tools on both systems or third-party software.
I usually do these fixes via Windows because of convenience in that the DiskPart tool is a one-stop-shop for most partition table operations.
Hi,
I dig into this thread because I am preparing my next editing computer, and the hard drive will probably be the moredifficult component to choose.
I have experimented in the past :
1) Raid 0 and Raid 5 on motherboard with Sata 7200 non serveur edition : in Raid 5, you can forget the speed, and in Raid 0 about 200Mb/sec, but i was very anxious all the time about the raid controller linked to the motherboard. It was a 18 monthes old computer with i7 processor
2) Raid 0 and 5 on a dedicated SAS PCI card (adaptec) with 4x sata 3T serveur edition on a 3960 i7 processor. This option is much much more expensive. It is my actual editing computer. Is it much better ? A little bit. In Raid 5, it is not enough (when you put a long interview in 4K HD on the timeline, you have to wait too much for the wave audio to be complete. In Raid 0, it is faster but not faster enough for editing 4 x 4KHD timeline at the same time.
3) On my editing notebook, on the other hand, I have 2 x crucial SSD 960 G and 2 x MSSD 480 G. The interesting thing is that editing is smoother when the 4K HD are on the SSD than on the Raid 0 of the "big" editing computer . Second point, MSSD are much lower speed than Crucial SSD (on Sata 6 port). Today, it seems that the Samsung 840 EVO 1T are the fastest and cheap SSD, i am looking at them more specifically.
So, What will be my next solution (in 2 or 3 monthes) ?
I am still waiting for more informations about Mac Pro and thunderbolt 2. As many of ours, i think I would like to go back to Mac IF, and only IF, the power is really here. But at this time, i think I will be stick on a windows computer...
I won't use serveur edition hard drives anymore. They are too expensive with nearly the same speed as "normal" hard drives. I will only work on SSD, and keep the hard drive for backup and archives.
I saw a 3.5 icy box for 6x 2.5 SSD that i can easily put in a computer. So, i could buy 6x Samsung 840 EVO SSD and use them in Raid with a lsi card in Raid 0 or 5 or even 6 (if the loss of speed is not too much). I don't mind a lot with speed disk test software because it does not reflect my real editiong experience. What i found the more informative today is Adobe Premiere audio wave form and moving in the timelline with project of more than 1 hour.
Of course, with 6 x SSD in raid 0 (if I can't go raid 5 or 6), I will need a very robust everyday backup process, and i should be able to switch in a few minutes my working hard drive. For that, i will use a Raid 0 external backup hard drive. I would prefer a Raid 5 backup hard drive, but it is too slow for real work. The best should be a double backup process on 2 x Raid 0 hard drive, 1 inside the computer and the other one outside.
What are your opinions ?
Olivier
Jeff,
Would you mind offering your technique when you go about creating your RAID 0 software arrays? I've never heard about "digging" into the lower levels. This somehow creates a better, more stable, faster Raid set?
Do you use bootcamp on your Mac Pros to do the windows side? How would you do a clean RAID 0 install if you were to stick with the Mac OS infrastructure?
You want the drives to be totally blanked out, especially if you're going to use them for RAIDs. Enterprise or RAID class hard drives will arrive new in completely blank form. Consumer drives often have other crap on them, SSDs are usually bad about this. You can use diskutil from the command line to list their partition maps and remove partition mappings. Occasionally you may find an errant drive partition or a type that diskutil won't want to delete. Then you have to branch off to other tools. From the command line in the terminal window, there is the "gpt", "fdisk" and "pdisk" tools. These can take out some stubborn partition types that diskutil may want to not touch.