Speed setting in RACK FOCUS mode?

[Aria Khosravi]

Hey everyone.

Quick question: can anyone tell me if RED has implemented the proposed speed control in Rack Focus mode for either Epic or Scarlet?

I have one-touch rack focus mode working great, I just want to be able to adjust the actual focusing speed. I looked at the old thread where Jarred demonstrates this mode for the first time, and he said that there would be three different ways to set the duration of the focus pull. I assume that this simply hasn't been enabled yet, but I'm just confirming that I haven't overlooked it somehow.

Thanks.

 

[Jack Shanahan]

how did you get the rack working? I read the manual and played with it for a minute but havnt figured it out...

Thanks.

 

[Lliam Worthington]

Yeah this is something I've brought up before and would love to know.

 

[Trent Lillehaugen]

Hey everyone.

Quick question: can anyone tell me if RED has implemented the proposed speed control in Rack Focus mode for either Epic or Scarlet?

I have one-touch rack focus mode working great, I just want to be able to adjust the actual focusing speed. I looked at the old thread where Jarred demonstrates this mode for the first time, and he said that there would be three different ways to set the duration of the focus pull. I assume that this simply hasn't been enabled yet, but I'm just confirming that I haven't overlooked it somehow.

Thanks.

Currently Rack Focus speed cannot be adjusted.

 

[Arnold F.]

This is terrific and was what I was asking a while back when deciding whether to keep my touchscreen or not. I asked if focusing was possible and no one responded. In any case, this is a great thing and, I think, an important direction for RED to move in. Amidst the seeming obsession for everyone to try to be a DP and a Production Mixer in order to eliminate what one user here calls "extra baggage" (meaning Production Mixers), we should be working to eliminate the focus puller. From a workflow point of view, having someone have to pull focus for me is far more extra baggage than the person responsible for the other 50% of the movie. And, through the backward logic that has led to AC's being paid more than a mixer (for doing so much less), eliminating one of them is the way to save money. Sorry to get off topic - excited that I can rack focus myself.

 

[Andy Kolb]

Is it possible yet to adjust rack focus speed for smooth automated focus pulls?

 

[Philipe Ratton]

Focus pullers are not important. Extra baggage.
What the fuck is happening to reduser?
Tell that to the guys in the Bourne trilogy.

 

[Glen Powell]

Focus pullers are not important. Extra baggage.
What the fuck is happening to reduser?
Tell that to the guys in the Bourne trilogy.

*begin rant*

Yeah i know… I'm hanging on to the 1st ac / focus puller that I use; he can pull & rack focus without looking at the monitor ('cause he learned on film) and usually without measuring marks…
Auto-focus pull? where's the sport or skill in that? And don't bring up that old chestnut that you "work alone" in a "run and gun" environment. Skill and pride in your craft shows up on screen more than reliance on electronic crutches.

*end rant*

 

[steven c wallace]

@andy +1, I would like to adjust the speed of the rack focus too

 

[Terry VerHaar]

You can't adjust the speed of the rack... yet.

 

[Aria Khosravi]

Wow, I remember starting this thread. As far as I'm aware, this feature is still not included.

And don't bring up that old chestnut that you "work alone" in a "run and gun" environment. Skill and pride in your craft shows up on screen more than reliance on electronic crutches.

Focus pullers are not important. Extra baggage.
What the fuck is happening to reduser?

Hey now, I wasn't implying that we should get rid of 1st ACs, and the guy that made the initial "extra baggage/get rid of ACs" comment probably didn't mean it as maliciously as it seemed.

I'm talking about the stray low budget project where you don't even get a 1st AC, and you're doing a fast dolly move on a little rubber track dolly with no seat or platform, so you're just running back and forth, trying to hit your position marks, still trying to keep your frame, while also hitting focus marks with the other hand, and on top of that the director is looking for shallower DoF, so you've opened up... See what I'm getting at? If there isn't an AC, that's not really going to work. We don't all work on Hollywood sets all the time. Sometimes there is a really strict budget for a really small project that someone needs made, and we don't get all the gear and crew that we'd like.

Look everyone, in the end, we are all just wondering if RED had implemented a certain feature, mostly because they said that they would. There's nothing wrong with moving forward and trying out new things. You have to agree that we can't pull focus manually forever. At some point in the relatively distant future, AF will probably be versatile enough that fully manual focus will become obsolete. I think we'll always have to tell it where and how to focus somehow, but the accuracy and ability to follow focus on a given point will improve with time. Doesn't mean that just 'cause we think a slightly more advanced electronic rack focus would be useful right now, that we suck at framing, composition, lighting, exposure, creativity, everything. Please lighten up a little bit, guys.

I understand the frustration with a lot of newer REDusers who seem clueless (not talking about anyone in this thread), but come on, a couple of us wanted to know more about a focusing feature in our cameras. The negative feedback here is akin to shutting someone down because they asked if phantom power was enabled on the 3.5mm jacks, because there are sound mixers who should be dealing with that on an external recorder and onboard audio is obsolete on high end cameras because it isn't the most pristine, flat, 96-192khz, low noise goodness that everyone in the industry wants. :bored:

 

[Philipe Ratton]

Hey, I would love to have the feature as well.
I just found the comment a little insulting to the ACs, that's all.
Nothing wrong with the request at all.

 

[Aria Khosravi]

I just found the comment a little insulting to the ACs, that's all.

For sure. I can't speak for the person who posted it, but hopefully it was just poor word choice. I think they were coming from an inconvenience standpoint, like as the person running a production, it's one expense that could be eliminated in budget situations when it came down to it. Corporate videos, or low budget music videos that you get hired to DP on are a good example. Especially if multiple focus points could be enabled, that would be so useful. If they had that too, then ACs would only need to pull focus in run and gun shots (ironic, because someone else associated our 'lazy' idea of pulling focus electronically with run and gun... What?) where focus points can't be determined exactly. At any rate, this only applies to stills lenses right now anyway. ACs pretty much hate stills lenses, particularly the Canon style infinite-focus-ring ones, which is what we're talking about here. So it's a win-win. Cine or even higher end stills lenses, both of which are more AC friendly, are still not going to work like this for a long time.

And I thought of something, maybe somebody else knows the answer. Maybe the issue is that Canon lenses (I think Nikon is different because of mechanics, maybe not though) are designed to be able to electronically focus at a certain minimum speed, and whatever algorithm RED could have used to slow this down resulted in "clicky" focusing, similar to how they couldn't smooth out the iris adjustments much on the Canons. It's something we wouldn't notice because AF adjustments are always pretty quick on DSLRs. Maybe someone with more experience knows if I'm wrong.

 

[Glen Powell]

Hey guys don't mind me - I just get really frustrated when producers (and other DP's) figure that one of the first positions that can be cut is the AC. Happens all the time to me, the conversation about the job comes around to - "Can you do it without an AC? The budget's really tight". I think to myself, and often say out loud - Nope, maybe cut back on your preproduction lunches...

The reason I was really enflamed this week is: I was outbid on a job by a guy (with a Scarlet) who did it with Canon glass on autofocus and completely fucked up the job. Completely. Now the agency wants me to come in and re-shoot to clean it up as a favour to them, with the promise of future full price work.

I just bristle when I listen to guys who are trying to find shortcuts instead of learning / honing / perfecting their craft. I still end up doing 'jobs' for myself or for friends without an AC, but I can dolly and rack focus - I can jib / pan / tilt and maintain focus...

 

[Aria Khosravi]

I just bristle when I listen to guys who are trying to find shortcuts instead of learning / honing / perfecting their craft. I still end up doing 'jobs' for myself or for friends without an AC, but I can dolly and rack focus - I can jib / pan / tilt and maintain focus...

I understand all of what you're saying. And my implications were actually for personal jobs and similar work. If I'm given the $$$ to work with, I'll choose PL mount cine glass over stills any day. And I can pull my own focus really well on those, with their nice smooth, long focus throws. This whole thread is for those 'other' situations. A plastic Canon prime is not easy to precisely hit marks on, particularly because if you hit the end of the focus throw and pass it by 1mm, all your marks are wrong now. If I had the money, I would have a Ti PL mount and a set of RPPs. But I don't, so what can I do? And I promise you, I've spent so much time learning things on my own. I once did a shot on a 5D (full-frame, remember) at 50mm @ f/4, using three markings with one of those plastic Canon focus rings, and I was running as fast as I could while pushing the whole rig, forwards and backwards. I still got at least 75% of the 3 minute shot in focus and. But, if someone/something else could have hit those marks for me, it would have been a lot easier. By 50 seconds in, I had already turned past the focus range and the marks were useless, so I had to do it by eye.

And I definitely don't think AC should be one of the first positions to cut. In fact, when I'm told that I can only have ONE crew member with me, I go for an AC most of the time. Either that or a gaffer (talking about non-audio shoots here). Forget the pre-production lunch, I'm talking about things where there is one director, who needs one DP, and can't afford anybody else, no extra gear, 25 bucks for 4 hours in some location in a back lot... Catering would be long gone by the time we get to cutting ACs.

All I'm saying is, it seems we have the technology for a feature to work, it would be interesting if we could try it out. You don't think motion control is useless, do you? That's the same concept. It hits a set of positions and hits predetermined focus marks for each. There's human input, but after that it hits its marks repeatedly better than any team of human operators could.

I can jib [...] and maintain focus...

Are you talking about jibbing as in... Camera crane? Like, you're operating the crane from the back and you're pulling focus yourself at the same time? Or are you operating from the mount, one of those jibs with the fluid head at the end, and walking with it? Or you mean just measuring / setting focus distance, with not too wide an aperture, and then maintaining that distance through the shot? Because if it's the first one... I would love to learn how you do that!:shocked:

 

[Glen Powell]

Or are you operating from the mount, one of those jibs with the fluid head at the end, and walking with it? Or you mean just measuring / setting focus distance, with not too wide an aperture, and then maintaining that distance through the shot? Because if it's the first one... I would love to learn how you do that!:shocked:

Jib operated from the front...

 

[James McLellan]

+1000. Would love 3 different speeds. Or 2 different speeds. Anything. I know how hard this would be to implement though. In essence you would probably have to have a focus puller pull at 3 different speeds and electronically record the graph, then paste those functions into the epic menu.

Currently it racks as fast or slow as the lense goes. Changing that is not as simple as one would think it should be.

 

[Joesef o.]

Do it the right way, pull focus with an AC if you dont have one, then buy a 12" whip and pull with that. I would NEVER rely on a focal point that the camera thinks is in focus, thats just asking for buzzed shots. Learn the skill and do it right, dont cheap out and do shotty work.