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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Speechless...

I'm still trying to figure out how in the world that could be the case.

But these guys stand and deliver.

Always.

The footage looked amazing.

The lenses blew away the Cooke's and MP's

Lingerie models, and Tiramisu.

God I love this country
 
Stephen Lovett said:
I'm still trying to figure out how in the world that could be the case.

But these guys stand and deliver.

Always.

The footage looked amazing.

The lenses blew away the Cooke's and MP's

Lingerie models, and Tiramisu.

God I love this country
Click to expand...

HAhaha...

So how did you see the lens comparison? Where they projected?

And back on topic: Has anyone noticed any compression on the Red Ray screening? So far that I've only seen one post hinting to a very small difference.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
HAhaha...

So how did you see the lens comparison? Where they projected?

And back on topic: Has anyone noticed any compression on the Red Ray screening? So far that I've only seen one post hinting to a very small difference.
Click to expand...

Yeah, so I saw too, but thats 10mb/s to 800mb/s and Graeme pretty much stated that they were not quite done with it yet so they are still working out the small kinks. =]
 
Maybe we were fooled into believing until now about needing a lot mbit/s to run the show. Thats what happens when some people need a lot of numbers to make things sound way more important and "professional" than they really should be.
 
How many people here saw the video with their own occular devices? I tend to be an optimist but 10Mbit per seconds is barely above the DVD rate. Color me impressed if they've delivered better than HD DVD/Blu-ray specs at under 15Mbps avg datarate.

Well..color me RED
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
HAhaha...

So how did you see the lens comparison? Where they projected?

And back on topic: Has anyone noticed any compression on the Red Ray screening? So far that I've only seen one post hinting to a very small difference.
Click to expand...

Yes Roberto,

There was a lens projector setup in the vendor room, so we saw A/B projections with "Competitive" lenses.

I've got a projector / big screen and blu-ray setup at home, and it looked every bit as good, and given the rear projection hotel room mess, that is incredibly impressive.

I know a lot of very smart people who work on compression algorithms, let me repeat, very very smart people, and this is giant step forward.

Steve
 
John Caballero said:
Maybe we were fooled into believing until now about needing a lot mbit/s to run the show. Thats what happens when some people need a lot of numbers to make things sound way more important and "professional" than they really should be.
Click to expand...

You have to start out with a lot of "lot of numbers" to make 10 mbit/s look real good. Garbage in/garbage out applies. I guess you cannot grade a compressed image like this very well. It's "just" for viewing...

Cheers,
Fredrik
 
Do I have to go scouring the "REDUSER NAB 2009 - The Official Thread" thread or what? Because all I hear is a bunch of talk of an amazing RED RAY demonstration all over the forum with no more information. 10mbs/s of 4k on a disc and it looked great? What happened last night?
 
"Cannot grade a compressed image..."

"Cannot grade a compressed image..."

Fredrik Harreschou said:
You have to start out with a lot of "lot of numbers" to make 10 mbit/s look real good. Garbage in/garbage out applies. I guess you cannot grade a compressed image like this very well. It's "just" for viewing...

Cheers,
Fredrik
Click to expand...

This is very true, it is best to use lossless compresion of the sensor data so you can process it to bring out the details you want in the final image.

Compression tricks can then be used on the graded images at video gamma to reduce bandwidth.

If you try to pull up the dark areas of compressed images, even those in REDCODE, you may pick up more artifacts than you might with true RAW data.

Try saving images as JPG 10% filesize then grading them to extreem with gamma shifts and curves and matrix, you will probably see more issues with color tone banding, Posterization and histogram gaps than working with uncompressed TIF (48bpp) taken from RAW mode source.

With temporal compression you cannot extract individual frames that have image details at full resolution in the right places in the images over the whole frame area, the system may depend on motion blur of the moving images to hide some of the compression artifacts and resloution losses.
 
3D wavelets perhaps?

I've always thought such a thing might be usable once processors catch up.

The changes from frame to frame are often even softer than from one corner to the other.

If you think of an image as a plane and an image series as a cube you could compress the voxel cube using wavelets. Save tons of data. However would also require some insanely fast decoding.
 
OcularLimpidity said:
Do I have to go scouring the "REDUSER NAB 2009 - The Official Thread" thread or what? Because all I hear is a bunch of talk of an amazing RED RAY demonstration all over the forum with no more information. 10mbs/s of 4k on a disc and it looked great? What happened last night?
Click to expand...

Last night during the presentation they showed two reels -- the IBC one from last year and a new one for this year. After both were played it was revealed that the first reel shown was uncompressed 4k (that would be this year's reel) and the one from last year was compressed using the new RedRAY codec to 10 mbit/sec (as a point of comparison un-compressed SD mini-DV is 25 mbit/sec).

Very few people in the room were able to notice the difference even after three showings and knowing which reel was which.

In terms of numbers:
(Red 400 is the new, 4k uncompressed reel. Red 300 is the compressed one)

Red 400 7:15 = 320GBs = 735.63 MB/Sec
Red 300 5:45 = 450MBs = 1.3 MB/Sec

Both for 4k, no noticed artifacts. Projected back to back on the same projector.

I can't vouch for the quality because I wasn't there but that's been the report so far.

-Joe Kavanagh
 
I got to see it last night and it was something to see. You could feel the winds of change sweeping over the industry. Sony is going to be crapping in their pants when they see this. Its a good thing that Red is doing this because I'm sure anyone else would be bought out to make sure that it would never see the light of day.

I saw all three screenings they did and it looked like flawless uncompressed 4K. I'm so happy to be part of this company.

Oh yeah...and the new Red Primes kicked ass. Might be selling my kidney to buy a set.
 
Andrew Walker said:
I got to see it last night and it was something to see. You could feel the winds of change sweeping over the industry. Sony is going to be crapping in their pants when they see this. Its a good thing that Red is doing this because I'm sure anyone else would be bought out to make sure that it would never see the light of day.

I saw all three screenings they did and it looked like flawless uncompressed 4K. I'm so happy to be part of this company.

Oh yeah...and the new Red Primes kicked ass. Might be selling my kidney to buy a set.
Click to expand...

Andrew that's funny, but I can't wait to see the footage...
How long did it take you to get your Red One?
 
Ditto on the reel. Saw it twice last night and it really was fantastic. Also the RPP performed better than MPs and Cooke...undeniable. This industry is in for a big splash. All I need now is for Adobe to acquire Assimilate and package scratch along with CS4...
 
c-well said:
Andrew that's funny, but I can't wait to see the footage...
How long did it take you to get your Red One?
Click to expand...

I think it was close to a year for me to get my camera. But I'm number 127, so the cameras weren't even out yet when I put down my deposit. That's why I had to wait so long. As I understand it you can get the camera much quicker now.
 
Andrew Walker said:
I got to see it last night and it was something to see. You could feel the winds of change sweeping over the industry. Sony is going to be crapping in their pants when they see this. Its a good thing that Red is doing this because I'm sure anyone else would be bought out to make sure that it would never see the light of day.
Click to expand...

Good point. :thumbsup::sifone:
 
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