Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Speculation, Scarlet S35 .. DSMC or PRO CINEMA?

I'd love to take the Epic x path, but not if I need a new brain to get Monstro.

What I'm now thinking, is if you need to replace the whole brain to get at Monstro, what was the point of a modular system?

I mean, the R1 doesn't have a processing upgrade, but has a monstro upgrade, so why not keep processing and sensor upgrades seperate? It would mean being even more modular

Or does the Epic X have less processing power than a R1, hence the need for a whole new brain?
 
accessories for FF35 for still photography

accessories for FF35 for still photography

This is all very exciting. But I have queries:

1. What all accessories are required to make Scarlet FF35 a ready-to-shoot STILL CAMERA? Please apprise.

2. Would like to know the probable price for this 'kit'. Depending on that will decide whether it makes sense to wait for Scarlet FF35?

3. What is the ISO range?

4. When do we expect to see some sample photos - raw and jpeg (and film-footage)?
 
ronx said:
I
What I'm now thinking, is if you need to replace the whole brain to get at Monstro, what was the point of a modular system?

I mean, the R1 doesn't have a processing upgrade, but has a monstro upgrade, so why not keep processing and sensor upgrades seperate? It would mean being even more modular

Or does the Epic X have less processing power than a R1, hence the need for a whole new brain?
Click to expand...

What you are missing here is that a BRAIN is MORE THAN A SENSOR.

While I can only speculate - I think it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand .... putting a MONSTRO sensor in a Red One 'aint gonna give you what a MONSTRO BRAIN will give you. Maybe you get the dynamic range - but no way will get all the goodies.

Other technologies move forward - not just sensor technology.

This is why a modular system makes a lot of sense.

I think Jim is crazy generous. Maybe too generous for his own good.

When you look at these prices and options compared to the ... "competition" ... much of the noise here lately makes a whole lot of Redusers sound ... spoiled.

You give your kid a sports car for high school graduation ... guess what he wants when he graduates college ...?

If RED could do everything they know they can do now in the Red One body ... well ... there wouldn't be a DSMC line-up, would there?
 
I could be mis-interpreting, but I don't think RED is asking you to surrender your RED ONE in exchange for the 12% discount, Mark. I think they're just offering a 12% discount towards the purchase of a SCARLET, straight up. As a 2nd (in my case, third...) cam.

I've already resigned myself to purchasing the SCARLET outright, even though I told myself, "no new cameras for the next five years" after I purchased the REDs. (heh. liar....) But the weight reduction alone is absolutely irresistible. Throw in the interchangeable lens mount and I. must. haaaave.....just for personal use, not business. The RED ONEs can run the business, SCARLET will be mine all mine.....mwahahahaha!

I think you are right, that many users will buy the SCARLET because they won't be patient, waiting around to jump into the modular system, when their number is up...

So I'll have a SCARLET, a RED ONE, and an upgraded EPIC. One of each.

Anyone want to buy a 1DsMarkII? Nicely priced? I better start selling some of these off-brands!
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
I could be mis-interpreting, but I don't think RED is asking you to surrender your RED ONE in exchange for the 12% discount, Mark. I think they're just offering a 12% discount towards the purchase of a SCARLET, straight up. As a 2nd (in my case, third...) cam.
Click to expand...

LOL!! You are totally right ... see ... it's true ... I need more sleep.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
The Scarlet S35 is gonna ROCK HARD!! and Jim can call it what he wants ... it sure a shit will be ... PRO CINEMA.
Click to expand...
Words of wisdom. :ninja:

I absolutely see Scarlet S35 as THE new Hollywood A-cam. Lightweight, inexpensive, S35 PL mount with 72fps bursts in 5K... The only thing one would need anything else for is way higher framerates (but then you swap in the theoretical, specialized "hi-speed brain") and increased dynamic range (Monstro brain) when those are available.

But when Scarlet S35 rolls out the gate next Summer, that's what everyone will get, period. I don't think anyone will, or should, wait for the Epic brains. Get Scarlet first, shoot better than RED-ONE footage, and then later get Epic if you feel you need it.
 
I think your timing of releases is a bit off Mark but the concept is about right.

Scarlet fixed lens might come out first then followed by Epic-X then the better Scarlets and Epics will follow.

I dont think as many Reds will upgrade to Epic as you think. A lot of people
sunk all they had or got loans for the cameras in a jump from the HVX200 or
similiar, so they might need a little time to recoup some money to make the
next level or just wait for the sensor upgrade. I think we will see about 1500 to 2000 Epics at first. That is my guess for trade ins, new sales are different and I got no clue on that.

My plan is similar to yours, But I think Red wants to get Epic-X out as soon as possible. so I will get an fixed Scarlet,no discount, then Epic-X,trading in "ol Cheasesteak" at that time, then maybe the Monstro Scarlet, depending on how much all the bits and pieces cost.
 
Paul Hazlett said:
I dont think as many Reds will upgrade to Epic as you think.
Click to expand...

LOL! Let me tell you ... MANY, MANY folks sat on the sidelines and are ordering cameras now. Many companies will order Red Ones now - JUST TO GET THE EPIC-X DEAL.

My bet ... 3000 UPGRADES TO EPIC-X.
 
My bet is that R1 to Mysterium-X is the first in the line

just because they need a massive MYST-X sensor test

before the production of any Scarlet or EPIC reach the final stage.

The sensor upgrade means also updated of the camera body software, REDCODE, then workflow(s), workaround(s), SDK

and finally (upgraded) R1 users can first test the pictures with 11+ DR and more 5K, 4K, 3K and 2K fps...etc.

Expected to start January/February 2009.

NAB 2009 with EPIC and Scarlet Myst-X based working models at the show.

Fall/Winter 2009 shipping of simple Scarlet model and R1 to EPIC-X trade program.

Monstro 2010.

Then again you upgrade your R1 first to Monstro, test it and if everything works well

then you could buy other variants of Scarlet or EPIC that cover your need.

You kept your R1 to the last moment, tested all new sensors and maybe it is a

the best time to trade your R1 to your desired model let's say EPIC 645 or other.
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
My bet is R1 to Mysterium-X is the first in the line

just because they need a massive MYST-X sensor test

before the production of any Scarlet or EPIC reach the final stage.

The sensor upgrade means also updated of the camera body software, REDCODE, then workflow(s), workaround(s), SDK

and finally R1 users can first test the pictures with 11+ DR and more 5K, 4K, 3K and 2K fps...etc.

Expected to start January/February 2009.

NAB 2009 with EPIC and Scarlet Myst-X based working models at the show.

Fall/Winter 2009 shipping of simple Scarlet model and EPIC-X trade program.
Click to expand...

Again ... unless I missed something ... SCARLET S35 is first out of the gate.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Again ... unless I missed something ... SCARLET S35 is first out of the gate.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't say that.

Never forget what's written at Jim's signature:

"Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."
 
Also never forget that a key of RED technology is based mostly on

SENSOR (Mysterium, X, Monstro) and SOFTWARE (REDCODE).

Hardware always comes after that.

If they want to proof/test their "key technologies" they should do it first on R1.

They could even continue to sell R1 with "upgraded" sensor.

R1 is a success, for all other products you never know.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
What you are missing here is that a BRAIN is MORE THAN A SENSOR.

While I can only speculate - I think it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand .... putting a MONSTRO sensor in a Red One 'aint gonna give you what a MONSTRO BRAIN will give you. Maybe you get the dynamic range - but no way will get all the goodies.

Other technologies move forward - not just sensor technology.

This is why a modular system makes a lot of sense.

I think Jim is crazy generous. Maybe too generous for his own good.

When you look at these prices and options compared to the ... "competition" ... much of the noise here lately makes a whole lot of Redusers sound ... spoiled.

You give your kid a sports car for high school graduation ... guess what he wants when he graduates college ...?

If RED could do everything they know they can do now in the Red One body ... well ... there wouldn't be a DSMC line-up, would there?
Click to expand...

Thankyou for telling me lots of things i already know!

You're missing the point actually. A monstro brain costs $33k (very expensive if you only want a sensor upgrade, don't you think? Or do you throw money around willy nilly?).

I don't think accusing people who want value of being spoilt is logic as I know it.

I'd go for an Epic X, but only with a reasonable Monstro "sensor" upgrade for the future (ie, not a whole new brain). Similar to how the R1 upgrade would work.

I'd like the DR of a Monstro sensor, I'm not interested in faster frame rates than the Epic X already offers.

If the R1 can handle a Monstro sensor, then the new brains in the Epic X (with faster processing presumably NB, new framerate specs!), shouldn't need changing to work with a Monstro sensor either.

Think about what i'm saying. Why would the new faster brain need updating to work with Monstro, if an existing R1 "brain" can already handle Monstro?

Sure I could buy the $33k Epic, but I'm commenting on Epic X. I don't think the free modules will be too expensive.

Like I said, it could do with being a little MORE MODULAR from what I can tell so far, who knows, maybe Red will make sensors upgradeable seperately.

Anyway, until Epic X gets a Monstro sensor its not an upgrade path I can afford to take afterall.
 
Wow...Mark get some rest...this speculation is doing my head in...haha, but interesting none the less. I think Epic X will be 1st out the gate...or at least it should be since its the one true upgrade to R1, SKarlet S35 will be a down grade imo...and I know the specs prove me wrong on that statement but you get the idea...all I am saying is if EPIC X is the real R1 upgrade then it should be the 1st out of the gate. If monstro was here today then I am sure EPIC X would have a monstro sensor but I am guessing that monstro is just code for what ever is the latest and greatest sensor technology RED can come up with, so for now we have EPIC X.

Personally I like my RED ONE and dont plan on upgrading until its time...I do want a SCARLET S35 for A/B cam though...I dont underestimate the power of this beast.
 
Ronx, you're not the first to make this point. But I think it is kind of missing the point.

Ex-RED ONE, this is a whole re-do of the RED business model. The trade-off is that they don't have to make endless upgrades to existing camera sensors. If you want more brain, you buy more brain. You buy what you need, you don't buy what you don't need.

The only exception to this is RED ONE, and the reason is, that RED has generously--perhaps even nostalgically-- agreed to not leave its eldest son behind as they launch into the modular future. Moreover, they continue to turn the $17.5K body into a money machine, with the $4.5K cost of an upgrade, it becomes a $22K body, with the $XXX Monstro upgrade, those same users keep paying year-over-year. So even the RED ONE owners who don't do the full-on EPIC upgrade keep paying. It's not as if these upgrades are free.

The downside to RED ONE owners is that they don't get to participate in the design advantages and features that the modular system will surely bring to the camera.

There are going to be trade-offs in both directions. This is not a bad thing. It keeps RED ONE holding onto a few advantages, while giving the user many choices and incentives to upgrade.

I surely don't want my RED ONEs to lose all of their advantage. I'm happy that RED is doing everything they can to keep continuing to add value to these cameras. That's a good thing!
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
Ronx, you're not the first to make this point. But I think it is kind of missing the point.

Ex-RED ONE, this is a whole re-do of the RED business model. The trade-off is that they don't have to make endless upgrades to existing camera sensors. If you want more brain, you buy more brain. You buy what you need, you don't buy what you don't need.

The only exception to this is RED ONE, and the reason is, that RED has generously--perhaps even nostalgically-- agreed to not leave its eldest son behind as they launch into the modular future. Moreover, they continue to turn the $17.5K body into a money machine, with the $4.5K cost of an upgrade, it becomes a $22K body, with the $XXX Monstro upgrade, those same users keep paying year-over-year. So even the RED ONE owners who don't do the full-on EPIC upgrade keep paying. It's not as if these upgrades are free.

The downside to RED ONE owners is that they don't get to participate in the design advantages and features that the modular system will surely bring to the camera.

There are going to be trade-offs in both directions. This is not a bad thing. It keeps RED ONE holding onto a few advantages, while giving the user many choices and incentives to upgrade.

I surely don't want my RED ONEs to lose all of their advantage. I'm happy that RED is doing everything they can to keep continuing to add value to these cameras. That's a good thing!
Click to expand...

I think manufacturing should be as green as possible. Why throw away processors because you need a new sensor.

Obviously, selling the brain is an option perhaps, but I won't be upgrading "as soon as" epic X is released, so then why would I choose a Mysterium X sensor when Monstro is available and I know what my clients will want, dynamic range, then frame rates, then resolution.

It looks like I'll be passing on the Epic X, but why can't R1 users loyalty be rewarded with free modules for the $33k model, whats the difference?
 
ronx said:
Think about what i'm saying. Why would the new faster brain need updating to work with Monstro, if an existing R1 "brain" can already handle Monstro?
Click to expand...
Okay Ronx - I understand where you are coming from - and I DO NOT think I can tell you anything you don't already know ... as we are all just speculating here based on announcements that include a disclaimer to change.

I could be WRONG about everything. I think the name of the thread starts with ... "speculation" ...

Think about what I am saying.

Exactly HOW will the R1 "brain" can "already handle Monstro"?? Details??

Does putting a Monstro into Red One require a board(s) upgrade to handle the firepower of that sensor? Or does the R1 Monstro just have a bunch of limitations? What is the price of putting a Monstro into Red One?

Jim can tell you what you don't know. I can't. I can ... speculate.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top