sound

[soren k jensen]

Audio hack

Audio hack

The Scarlet does have 4 channels of audio available, 2 of which are onboard and 2 via the I/O module.

I've made 4 inputs on an old hvx200, not so terribly usable, though, as panasonic makes an audio zoom function on the two internals mics, using four capsules and phase stuff. Just to say that if Red doesn't do the same trick, but feeds the mic signal of the internal two into the brain without filtering or processing, we might well be able to use all 4 tracks -if the camera can be physically pulled apart to do it. Byebye warranty, though...

 

[Philip Lipetz]

The Scarlet does have 4 channels of audio available, 2 of which are onboard and 2 via the I/O module.

The Zoom H4n can function as two mono channel 44.1/48kHz mixing board with USB output, perhaps the Zoom could be adapted to function as an XLR I/O module.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

I've made 4 inputs on an old hvx200, not so terribly usable, though, as panasonic makes an audio zoom function on the two internals mics, using four capsules and phase stuff. Just to say that if Red doesn't do the same trick, but feeds the mic signal of the internal two into the brain without filtering or processing, we might well be able to use all 4 tracks -if the camera can be physically pulled apart to do it. Byebye warranty, though...

I don't understand what you want to pull apart... The brains have two balanced inputs on the brains, and then you can get an extra two inputs on the IO modules if you choose to buy them. And you can record all four channels at once.

Maybe you're talking about doing something to the internal mic on the HVX? Because Scarlet doesn't have one - just inputs.

 

[soren k jensen]

You've pulled...not

You've pulled...not

My bad, thought there was gonna be internal mics.
Hmmm let me go find another reason to pull it apart, then ;-)

 

[Cedric Akins]

I've made 4 inputs on an old hvx200, not so terribly usable, though, as panasonic makes an audio zoom function on the two internals mics, using four capsules and phase stuff. Just to say that if Red doesn't do the same trick, but feeds the mic signal of the internal two into the brain without filtering or processing, we might well be able to use all 4 tracks -if the camera can be physically pulled apart to do it. Byebye warranty, though...

No I would not pull the unit apart. There are two additional In and Out Modudles, "I/O Module," available for Epic/Scarlet. There is a pro and a basic I/O module that will also have xlr inputs to attach additional microphones. There is no need to void any warranty.

To Phillip I actually own a Zoom H4n. There may or may not be a way to use the H4n via usb port on the I/O module, but you really would not need the Zoom as a I/O module if you purchased Red's I/O mod for either Scarlet or Epic. But it would be a suitable back up unit for audio which is what I use mine for.

 

[Philip Lipetz]

To Phillip I actually own a Zoom H4n. There may or may not be a way to use the H4n via usb port on the I/O module, but you really would not need the Zoom as a I/O module if you purchased Red's I/O mod for either Scarlet or Epic. But it would be a suitable back up unit for audio which is what I use mine for.

I own one too. In the ideal world I would buy an I/O module. However, there are many of us who are coming from the low end Indie market, and we are constantly looking for someway to minimize our expenses. I have been trying to figure out if I can use my Zoom H4n as an XLR interface to the inputs that are on the base module; thereby not needing to buy a I/O mod. Of course, if Red offered mini plug to XLR adapters this might be a moot point - or not, depending on cost.

When I look at this board and see the giants who post here I am awed and certainly feel funny being in the same discussion. At the same time I feel that there are going to be many more people like me who are stretching everything to get a Scarlet. We will approach things very differently than my friend who spent $40k on mods and lenses for his One.

 

[Cedric Akins]

I own one too. In the ideal world I would buy an I/O module. However, there are many of us who are coming from the low end Indie market, and we are constantly looking for someway to minimize our expenses. I have been trying to figure out if I can use my Zoom H4n as an XLR interface to the inputs that are on the base module; thereby not needing to buy a I/O mod. Of course, if Red offered mini plug to XLR adapters this might be a moot point - or not, depending on cost.

When I look at this board and see the giants who post here I am awed and certainly feel funny being in the same discussion. At the same time I feel that there are going to be many more people like me who are stretching everything to get a Scarlet. We will approach things very differently than my friend who spent $40k on mods and lenses for his One.

We are both in the same boat. I too am stretching things quite thin, finacially, in order to purchase a scarlet. as of right now it looks like I may be in the price range of $6300-$7000 plus S&H.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

I have been trying to figure out if I can use my Zoom H4n as an XLR interface to the inputs that are on the base module; thereby not needing to buy a I/O mod. Of course, if Red offered mini plug to XLR adapters this might be a moot point - or not, depending on cost.

I doubt you'd be able to use the H4 as an interface - you'd probably need to run it as a split system, and since I don't think the H4N has any way to sync to the camera, you would probably have to use a clapperboard to sync the audio (which gets irritating if you have a lot of shots).

I plan to use the inputs on the brain, as with the right cables (and there are some available now under $20 but it's hard to tell if they're wired right) you should get pretty similar performance to the zoom (the zoom has a higher sampling frequency but the difference between it and the Scarlet's inputs should be out of the hearing range of most humans). I'll probably make my own cables - it's pretty easy if you have some skill with a soldering iron.

 

[Joe G.]

The first post says:

"There are two balanced 3.5mm mic input with phantom power on the brain. "

That can't be right? Red?

You can't put 48 volts through a 3.5mm jack can you?

 

[Stephen Gentle]

The first post says:

"There are two balanced 3.5mm mic input with phantom power on the brain. "

That can't be right? Red?

You can't put 48 volts through a 3.5mm jack can you?

We've been through this time and time again... I explained it here and Stuart from RED confirmed that it's correct:

I'm confused how in #6 of the Scarlet announcements it says that there's 48v phantom power... but in this post, we're told that there is only a 3.5mm stereo port. So... no phantom on that port, are you referring to the I/O modules?

Electrically the ports (there's two of them) on the front of the brains are exactly the same as an XLR cable - it's just in a different connector. Phantom power is no problem assuming you have the right cable or adaptor.

If you're really interested in the details, it provides a balanced input through a three pin plug generally used for stereo. Instead of putting a ground on one segment of the pin and two positive signal channels through the others like a stereo input though, it instead has ground, negative and positive segments that connect to the ground, negative and positive pins of an XLR cable on the other end.

Take a look at the Wiki page for more details.

 

[Philip Lipetz]

What is not known, as far as I can tell, is if the plugs are normal plugs, with a reputation of becoming loose at random times, or if there is some sort of threading or other way to secure them. If there is some way to secure them then they are great alternatives, if they are standard plugs then they will be prone to the standard problems that have made them considered unacceptable for critical work? This is the critical issue in my mind. Or am I missing something?

I am counting on Red's excellent reputation to have found some solution to the well known problems of mini plug mic inputs.

 

[Andrew M.]

Philip, I guess for “critical work” we will use pro I/O module.

For anything else you have to make sure that these 3.5mm cable are tight up to the camera nearby there.

 

[Philip Lipetz]

Philip, I guess for “critical work” we will use pro I/O module.

For anything else you have to make sure that these 3.5mm cable are tight up to the camera nearby there.

I feel that this response ignores the real issue - is the Scarlet fixed base combo a serious solution or just a base package that MUST be upgraded to be used seriously? What would it mean if the base package requires upgrades to be used with confidence? In the ENG and doc worlds mini plug sound input cameras are not serious solutions. I know that dual sound solutions are the norm in cinema production, but there are a many other ways to use a high quality cam.

If Scarlet miniplugs have phantom power then my guess is that there will be some sort of special connectors, but no one knows. So why do I raise these issues? I feel confident that the Red team reads these forums and they have shown that they will change designs in response to readers' concerns. My hope is that they will continue to astound us with unexpected upgrades, and that one of them will be a simple solution to this problem.

We are a community, a diverse community, but a community. I am only one of many people exploring alternative uses for Scarlet. Our concerns may not be the same as yours, but we are still part of the same community and deserve something beyond quotation mark sarcasm that does not advance our joint exploration.

 

[mike filippov]

I am also thinking hard about how to deal with "critical' sound while trying to avoid the purchase of an i/o module.

In my ideal world, there would be a menu option to allow one of those audio ports to read a smpte timecode signal and stamp the r3d files with whatever number it sees... this would make for the smoothest post workflow of double system sound and still leave a port available for a camera mounted mic...

whad'ya'say Stuart?

This is of course assuming the luxury of a fully equipped sound person...

...otherwise, I would certainly be taping/tying/velcroing two XLR to mini adapter cables to the brain in such a way as to minimize stress on the mini jacks.

Although I am secretly certain that the Red team will have a more elegant solution under their sleeve...

... with such a small brain, I also find myself thinking of where I am going to place wireless audio and/or timecode receivers...

 

[Cedric Akins]

I feel that this response ignores the real issue - is the Scarlet fixed base combo a serious solution or just a base package that MUST be upgraded to be used seriously? What would it mean if the base package requires upgrades to be used with confidence? In the ENG and doc worlds mini plug sound input cameras are not serious solutions. I know that dual sound solutions are the norm in cinema production, but there are a many other ways to use a high quality cam.

If Scarlet miniplugs have phantom power then my guess is that there will be some sort of special connectors, but no one knows. So why do I raise these issues? I feel confident that the Red team reads these forums and they have shown that they will change designs in response to readers' concerns. My hope is that they will continue to astound us with unexpected upgrades, and that one of them will be a simple solution to this problem.

We are a community, a diverse community, but a community. I am only one of many people exploring alternative uses for Scarlet. Our concerns may not be the same as yours, but we are still part of the same community and deserve something beyond quotation mark sarcasm that does not advance our joint exploration.

Not to disagree with you about the usfulness of the threaded 3.5 mini jacks, but either way the Scarlet can still be used for serious work. I myself would prefer if the jacks were threaded but there are the xlr converters that can be placed on the bottoms of any camera if needed.

 

[Philip Lipetz]

Not to disagree with you about the usfulness of the threaded 3.5 mini jacks, but either way the Scarlet can still be used for serious work. I myself would prefer if the jacks were threaded but there are the xlr converters that can be placed on the bottoms of any camera if needed.

Hey, I hope I missed something. Are the jacks threaded? That would be more than great as long as there are mini unthreaded to threaded, and XLR (mini and full) to threaded adapters. That would be totally satisfactory.