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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Sound recording at all fps ?

Terry VerHaar said:
I hear this - and agree completely. But I do tend to think that recording on a Zoom H4n or equivalent might make as much or more sense if you want audio during over cranked recording (or even time-lapse). There really is no "synching" necessary so what's the difference?
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With Weapon, Red cameras are becoming smaller and lighter and when you add the Redvolt module, side handle and an EVF, you get a really small and compact package that's becoming a great documentary/one-man-band/walkaround camera.

I'm personally excited about this, having a small, powerful tool that you can carry in one hand all day and get close to the subject without being intrusive.
I bought into the Redvolt system and Leica primes for this reason.

Attaching a Zoom to it seems like going backwards on that concept. Disabling 48v phantom power on the base expander is also a step backwards when it comes to this style of shooting.

I'm not sure why, but people don't seem do understand that there's a huge range of uses for a camera. (not saying you in particular Terry) :)
Having a full audio crew in tow is sometimes not advantageous for gathering these kinda stories, it's not about "being unprofessional" as Marc is trying to imply.

Cheers,

Milan
 
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Marc Wielage said:
No. You have no excuses for being unprofessional when it comes to sound, even if it's inconvenient or beyond your current knowledge.
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Total and complete pretentious nonsense.

Not all of us film narrative work here. Sometimes getting the shot means grabbing your camera in a panic, and somehow managing to hit record before the moment has passed. This often takes without rehearsal, without additional crew, etc.

As the saying goes "the best camera to have, is the one that you have on you". In which case, as it pertains to audio, you either get the shot and whatever accompanying sound you can, or you miss the moment and get nothing. If you want to preach quality audio, then we need the best tools possible to fit any situation, and sometimes that situation makes it impossible to have a dedicated recorder or sound tech.
 
David Battistella said:
Which camera's do record sync sound when over or undercranking?

Would you want it to record sound on Timelapse shots as well?
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David,

I just DP-ed a shoot with 13 Red cameras for an NBC show, and this was a huge issue.
It was an off road race and directors wanted to have audio with every slow motion clip.
They wanted to have the option to be able to ramp the slow-motion shots or use the clip in regular speed with audio if the edit calls for it.
Every race vehicle sounds different, even in the same race class, so it was important to have audio of every vehicle.

This created a problem, because we couldn't have 13 audio crews with each camera out in the desert. They were small, mobile crews because it included a lot of 4x4 driving and hiking in remote locations (it's a 400 mile desert race).
In the past we sent every camera crew with a SD mixer/recorder and have them collect audio that way, it was a cumbersome and tedious process both in terms of adding additional workload on camera crews and in the post.
This year we used Zooms which is not great either....

Being able to record audio in camera while shooting off speed would be a great feature, much better for my needs than being able to shoot ProRes. The bandwidth obviously exists.

Again, I don't quite get why some people have a problem understanding that these cameras are used for more than one style of shooting (theirs).
 
I just asked a question and as I said, I'm not against sound in camera For over or under ranked footage I just do not believe it is technically possible with REDs system and I really do not know which camera record sound when over cranking or in timelpase mode.

In the scenario you describe above I can for sure understand why you'd want sound on the overcranking or ramping, and I do really believe that if it were possible red would do it,the fact that it hasn't happened probably comes down to technical limitations or it I'd something they have not explored. That's it. I'm not against any of this just not sue that it can technically can be done.

And i I know that anything shut at high shutter 24fps could be ramped in post with sound if needed (not the same of course) but if sound is that crucial that's the solution.

And i I ask the question because I don't know which song, Panasonic, arri bmd or other camera records sound off speed beyond 60 fps


david
 
Hasnt the iphone essestially been able to do this with slo mo for about 3 years now??? They would just need to make say a 120fps time base for 120fps footage, then the footage would play back in real time and you would have audio along with it.... it would be nice to have lower options in the 80s and 90s too for filming in 5k or 6k .... even though its not standard it should still be possible

Im sick of people saying get a sound guy or recorder.... man people use there cameras in tons of scenarios that arent productions.... Ive probably seen over a dozen videos that people made of their familys and kids at home on reduser.... they shouldve probably hired a sound guy for that though........
 
Marc Wielage said:
No. You have no excuses for being unprofessional when it comes to sound, even if it's inconvenient or beyond your current knowledge. That's the way life and production are. You have to respect the process, not come up with ignorant excuses as to why you don't know how to do it or can't afford to do it right.
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Believe me, it's not a matter of cost. I shoot music/EDM festivals at 96fps varispeed. Walking around with a sound guy in that mess is literally impossible. And even if I own a Zoom and a Tascam I don't want it hanging from the ronin bar and start/stop both camera and sound recorder every shot. And I don't want to sync 400 clips at the end of the day. I know there is a process, but some people have their own one. It's not being unprofessional. So please, respect it too. Peace. :beer:
 
David Battistella said:
That is kinda like saying. SHouldn't my RED be able to make phone calls and playback music?
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No, that is a stupid way to put it, we're talking about the video camera options here.... Im sure other camera's do it too but that shouldnt matter, Red has already done dozens of things that no other company has... if its possible(and it should be) they should be looking into it

But yeah on playback sound would be nice too
 
All I was suggesting is that just because it is done in an iphone that doesn't necessarily translate to the way R3D files are recorded and written to disk. Juat like you probably wouldn't so up to a shoot with your iphone as the main camera.

Anyhow. Red, probably would have piped in here already if this could be done and I think the conversation goes all the way back to 2007-8 where I am pretty sure it may have already been answered.

David
 
from one of your links -

" I think all we can do for audio in off-speed modes is record it to a seperate file and let you do with it what you will. Does that make sense?

Graeme"

regardless thats from over 9 years ago and things have changed alot since then......but if what graeme said is still true it answers the varicam option is possible.....

Adding faster project time base options would keep sound in sync and is another way of doing it. The only rebuttal ive heard is that faster time bases arent standard yet.... which seems like a silly reason
 
Yes,
the reduser archive is deep. NOt sure if any of it applies now. I know a long time ago I asked for a record audio only mode which can be very handy for long documentary interviews and instead of carrying a second recorder, which I do now with a mix pre and a zoom. So the fact that in the R3D, the audi ois embedded and not a "sidecar file" might not bode well.

I think it would be because the sidecar audio and the video file would have to both carry a TC reference for later sync. Maybe it was just easier to put it all in the R3D file.

David



Brodie Gwilliam said:
from one of your links -

" I think all we can do for audio in off-speed modes is record it to a seperate file and let you do with it what you will. Does that make sense?

Graeme"

regardless thats from over 9 years ago and things have changed alot since then......but if what graeme said is still true it answers the varicam option is possible.....

Adding faster project time base options would keep sound in sync and is another way of doing it. The only rebuttal ive heard is that faster time bases arent standard yet.... which seems like a silly reason
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We all have different needs, and the more options the better.

We always have a dedicated sound guy, but on run n' gun jobs we like to place an additional shotgun ON the camera, as it sometimes can pickup moments in sensitive situations the sound guy won't be able to record (as in when our DP follows talent...and runs into the Ocean...as happened 3 weeks ago).

So more advanced in camera recording options are welcome - both for high speed work, and doc/indie/run' gun.

Options...when well used...are generally always good!
 
Marc Wielage said:
This is one of many reasons why it's necessary to rent or purchase a high-quality external timecode sound recorder with a mixer. The sound recorder can also record sound when the camera isn't recording, can get wild tracks, sound effects, and usable sound no matter what the camera is doing. The on-set sound mixer will also have the ability to adjust levels and bring the microphone into an optimum position, which a camera operator can't do.

To me, the only indefensible use of recording sound in-camera is a) in war or violent situations, like demonstrations or combat, where the crew is literally running and dodging bullets, and b) clandestine situations where you're doing news or documentary material on the street or in areas where you're trying not to be observed. If it's a controllable situation, particularly like scripted features or TV, then there's no excuse for not having a sound department. I get not having a huge budget, but there are ways to do this affordably.
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+1. Also I would never use camera sound on slow motion scenes.
 
Nick Morrison said:
We always have a dedicated sound guy, but on run n' gun jobs we like to place an additional shotgun ON the camera, as it sometimes can pickup moments in sensitive situations the sound guy won't be able to record (as in when our DP follows talent...and runs into the Ocean...as happened 3 weeks ago).
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I agree 100% -- having more options in post is always a good thing. But relying only on camera audio is very foolhardy. Having camera audio in addition to​ external audio is fine.
 
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