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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Sony F3, Red contender?

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Tim Naylor said:
The 5D has one trait the others don't - full frame almost the size of a vista vision neg. But after that it's all downhill. Since the MX has become standard, there has been a precipitous drop in 5D client work on my end. Thank God. I'll go back doing what it does best - taking stills.

What I find amazing with Sony, they have the technology to introduce something inexpensive and truly pro (PL mount, small form, built in doo dads we like, 4:2:2 intra frame recording) but they don't, probably thinking it'll cannibalize their high end gear. But now with HDRx™™™™™™™™™™™ in sight, they will have to go back to the drawing board and ask themselves the big questions: Low price / high volume / high quality vs High price / low volume / high quality.

For Red's sakes, Sony's still waffling with low price, low quality/ high volume model and their High Price/ Low Volume/ High Quality model is about to experience a broadside from HDRx™™™™™™™™™™ relegating it to the commercially unviable model: High Price/ Lower Volume/ 2nd place Quality.
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You've expressed the reality from a manufacturers point of view. "low price, lower quality, high volume". This is the way these guys think, and for each segment of the product line its about figuring what features to add "just enough" to get the sales volume up, and not too many features, to rob sales from the next camera up the product chain. Its about marketing, and where the camera will fit into the product line and win sales relative to the competition.

It does feel like the F3 is a high price point for just a larger sensor, when we will soon have a similar spec in a much cheaper Af-100. But if you look around and see just how many Ex-1's and Ex-3's are out there and working steadily you can find the potential marketing logic. The Ex-3 kit is about 9k, and if street price for a F3 is really 13k, it does follow a path to the price point. I'm sure Sony is banking on the fact that they have 1000's of potential customers who use and love those EX cameras and may be ready to add a "35mm look" to their work having made a bunch of money back from the EX camera's.

Someone said it here a while back, "my Ex-3 paid for my Red one". These Ex cameras are great little cameras for for making (relatively) high quality HD images and with an easy work flow (regardless of technical flaws to XD codec). The Ex cams are a no-brainer camera to own, and own a few because were not all making "cinema" or art films, were just shooting what the client requires which is a low bar relative to Red. The F3 should do well because of all the current EX owners and the pressures to have available that "35mm look" and this is the easiest step to stay within the work flow they're used to. Plus lots of people trust Sony from using the products for decades.

Scarlett can (and should) change everyone's thinking in this "market segment" when it arrives, but until then people gotta work, and some people even need to spend money for year-end for taxes purposes, etc.
 
Erich Roland said:
snip... and some people even need to spend money for year-end for taxes purposes, etc.
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This is an important point that I would like RED to consider. Getting epic shipped by end of year would be an immediate 20-30% cost/cashflow reduction since many of us can expense the whole amount (law allows up to about $110000 of purchases to be expensed rather than amortized over five years).

Not to mention if they don't ship by years end our seven month old $5K deposit will be 20-30% more expensive since we couldn't use it for some other actual purchase - deposits aren't deductible (if any accountant types know different, tell us please).
 
From the videos i've seen so far (both external recording and on on camera sxs) it seems a very good cam. Of course, if the scarlet s35 comes out and it available to everyone by spring the latest, then it might be DOA. But also the scarlet 2/3 IMO has a great chance of being DOA (it's not 2008 anymore), and i would totally canned it and focus to get the scarlet S35 as soon as possible which will eat everything else up.
 
Rob Ruffo said:
These clueless wishful thinkers were helped along in their delusions by cynical exploiters of false hope selling ultra-high mark-up rigs, such as Phil Bloom + the gang at Zacuto, who also sell very expensive "DSLR pro workshops", an oxymoron if there ever was one.
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I got an email from one of those runny nosed bloggers inviting me to a workshop. This idiot had been in the industry for all of three years and had worked on nothing of merit as far as I could tell - in fact quite the reverse, his work was diabolical.

I guess they figure if they tell enough people they are a guru it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy and they'll eventually get invited to the top table. You've only got to look at Sony's staggeringly stupid launch of the F3 in London to see how this policy is indeed becoming a reality- it was like a rogue's gallery of self-styled bloggers who have lots to say, but not much to show in the form of real work.

Something tells me it will be slightly different when Epic is released...
 
Liam Hall said:
I got an email from one of those runny nosed bloggers inviting me to a workshop. This idiot had been in the industry for all of three years and had worked on nothing of merit as far as I could tell - in fact quite the reverse, his work was diabolical.

I guess they figure if they tell enough people they are a guru it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy and they'll eventually get invited to the top table. You've only got to look at Sony's staggeringly stupid launch of the F3 in London to see how this policy is indeed becoming a reality- it was like a rogue's gallery of self-styled bloggers who have lots to say, but not much to show in the form of real work.

Something tells me it will be slightly different when Epic is released...
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Well said
 
Well, I know, not a well-informed person. But it's hard to get any images until now.
 
shashbugu said:
Well said
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Not that well said. If Liam is referring to Mr.Bloom he is so far off. Philip has pushed the video dSLR's into mainstream and now a whole new generation have become interested in filmmaking -- who do you think will be upgrading to a Scarlet or a new red camera in 2-3 years time?

I think it's rather disrespectful to attack with such comments like "runny nosed bloggers"

Professionals should be just that, professional.
 
RJ King said:
Not that well said. If Liam is referring to Mr.Bloom he is so far off. Philip has pushed the video dSLR's into mainstream and now a whole new generation have become interested in filmmaking -- who do you think will be upgrading to a Scarlet or a new red camera in 2-3 years time?

I think it's rather disrespectful to attack with such comments like "runny nosed bloggers"

Professionals should be just that, professional.
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I wasn't attacking Philip Bloom and I wasn't attacking DSLRs, I've shot with DSLRs all over the planet. Though, I agree it was disrespectful to use the line "runny nosed bloggers", however in the case I was referring to it was entirely accurate. Trust me, I'm a professional...
 
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