Sonnet Qio + Mobile REDRocket

[Wolf]

Thanks for the update!

 

[Lonny Danler]

Thanks for all the good info and guinea pigging! I too have been on the fence on this one. I'm guessing you've tried putting the mobile rocket express 34 into the QIO SxS daisy chaining the QIO express 34 into the MBP? Did Sonnet happen to say why this didn't work if so?

Also, does anyone have eyes on the Mobile Raid out by Maxx Digital and iStorage Pro? I was looking at it at NAB. I also spoke with a P2 guy Helmut about the QIO and he said the P2 was way slow for PCI-e compared to say Panasonic's 5 card reader.

Here's a link to his blog and tests:
http://www.varicaminla.com/blog/

Great to hear the CF ports are working lighting! Looking for news on the SxS, P2 and SD speeds if anyone has done some benchmarks.

 

[Jordan Livingston]

Thanks for all the good info and guinea pigging! I too have been on the fence on this one. I'm guessing you've tried putting the mobile rocket express 34 into the QIO SxS daisy chaining the QIO express 34 into the MBP? Did Sonnet happen to say why this didn't work if so?

As I mentioned, this was one of the very first things that I tried, and it resulted in an immediate kernel panic, prior even to a complete startup.

Sonnet doesn't specifically say that this won't work; they just don't offer technical support for the Mobile Rocket. Maxx Digital has told me that the Mobile Rocket needs a direct connection to the computer and isn't compatible with third party HBA extension methods.

It might be possible to put the REDRocket itself into a competing third party HBA kit, which in turn might be compatible with the Qio, but with no manufacturer specifically supporting this workflow, it would ultimately be a matter of guess and check.

Also, does anyone have eyes on the Mobile Raid out by Maxx Digital and iStorage Pro? I was looking at it at NAB.

It looks totally awesome - I wish I had one - but it's very expensive, even more so with the recommended / preferred SSD media. It's ultimately not any "better" than my existing custom RAID-5 arrays; but it is self-contained in one box, which is very slick and very portable. I can't tell you how much time I spend getting to job sites way early to "build" up my cart. If you have the money, the Mobile Rocket RAID is certainly a time-saving, life-impriving solution.

I also spoke with a P2 guy Helmut about the QIO and he said the P2 was way slow for PCI-e compared to say Panasonic's 5 card reader.

I haven't had any hands on experience with the 5-card reader, but for starters, I think it's significantly more expensive than the Qio (about $800 on the street). In my informal tests, a single 16GB P2 card copies simultaneously onto two eSATA drives in under 8 minutes with the Qio.

- Jordan

 

[Lonny Danler]

Thanks for the add. info.

Check out istoragepro.com as well. Looks like you can get housing only. I'm always for improving quality of life ;-)

5 card reader def. more expensive and not as flexible. Does 16GBs of CF material download at the same speed of 8 minutes or is it faster? A couple variables at play there, but curious?

 

[Jordan Livingston]

Thanks for the add. info.

Check out istoragepro.com as well. Looks like you can get housing only. I'm always for improving quality of life ;-)

I could be wrong - maybe somebody can answer definitively - but my understanding is that the Maxx Digital Mobile Rocket branded enclosures have more underneath the hood than the mere iStoragePro housing. I do think there is special hardware co-engineered with RED to work with the Rocket, but again, I don't know for certain...

5 card reader def. more expensive and not as flexible. Does 16GBs of CF material download at the same speed of 8 minutes or is it faster? A couple variables at play there, but curious?

It looks like the Panasonic x5 P2 reader varies dramatically in price depending on where you find it online. The best price I've seen is more than 2x the price of the Qio, and everything you say above is still true. The MSRP appears to be more than 3x the street price of the Qio...

Again, I haven't performed any critical / scientific time trials, but the CF downloads appear to be even faster than P2 (in fact, P2 appears to be the slowest). In my experience in the field, a nearly-full (~5% remaining on card) 16GB CF card transfers to dual eSATA drives in about 4-5 minutes (this is without checksums, of course).

- Jordan

 

[Jordan Livingston]

Thanks for the add. info.

Check out istoragepro.com as well. Looks like you can get housing only. I'm always for improving quality of life ;-)

Looking into this further... it looks like the iStoragePro enclosure DOES natively support the REDRocket. So I'm really not sure what Maxx Digital's added value is?

That being said, it looks like you can't buy directly from iStoragePro, and no prices are listed on their site. Perhaps Maxx Digital is simply the authorized reseller?

For what it's worth, Maxx Digital have always provided me with excellent customer service, and seem to have a direct line to the folks at RED when support issues come up.

I definitely would like to trade my Mobile Rocket for a Mobile Rocket RAID, but as I mentioned in a previous post, I just can't afford it right now, and I already have a 10TB RAID-5 array that works just fine... for now.

- Jordan

 

[Paul Nordin]

Again, I haven't performed any critical / scientific time trials, but the CF downloads appear to be even faster than P2 (in fact, P2 appears to be the slowest). In my experience in the field, a nearly-full (~5% remaining on card) 16GB CF card transfers to dual eSATA drives in about 4-5 minutes (this is without checksums, of course).

- Jordan

I DPed on many event shoots with a DIT who used the Panasonic 5-card reader. It was reasonably fast, but was also unstable. At least once per shoot (sometimes 3-4times) the reader would freeze-up while downloading a 32GB P2 card. Resulting in a frenzied DIT trying to keep empty P2s flowing to the 5 cameras. FWIW

 

[Jordan Livingston]

I DPed on many event shoots with a DIT who used the Panasonic 5-card reader. It was reasonably fast, but was also unstable. At least once per shoot (sometimes 3-4times) the reader would freeze-up while downloading a 32GB P2 card. Resulting in a frenzied DIT trying to keep empty P2s flowing to the 5 cameras. FWIW

Hiya Paul,

I really don't know what it is about card readers - they seem to be universally unstable and unreliable! I've owned two Lexar "Pro" FW800 readers, two SanDisk USB2 readers, the [dreaded] Duel Adaptor, the single-P2 USB2 reader, and of course, now the Sonnet Qio - and ALL of them have caused major problems in the field.

The Qio is currently working very well as the best of the bunch; my new favorite piece of kit to be sure, but I never go to any job without at least two other (different) readers as backups.

Some best practices I have learned that seem to apply to all card readers:

- NEVER share busses. One reader per bus. No daisy-chaining.

- Put the reader(s) on a different bus than the hard drives (using eSATA drives helps A LOT and frees up the FW800 bus).

- If there's external power available for drives and/or readers - use it. Bus-power is totally unreliable throughout a 12, 14, 16 hour day...

- Cooling is critical. Swap out readers periodically to keep them cool. They seem to all have problems with overheating (which leads to crashing).​

Hope these tips are helpful!

- Jordan

 

[Lonny Danler]

I DPed on many event shoots with a DIT who used the Panasonic 5-card reader. It was reasonably fast, but was also unstable. At least once per shoot (sometimes 3-4times) the reader would freeze-up while downloading a 32GB P2 card. Resulting in a frenzied DIT trying to keep empty P2s flowing to the 5 cameras. FWIW

I DITed for a 5 camera P2 shoot as well and the PCD35 (PCIe) was blazing fast for one download and then I couldn't get it to work again. Tried express34 and HBA and a bunch of firmware installs, etc... I know others have had better luck. I ended up using two of the PCD20s--one firewire and one usb to maximize speeds on different buses.

Still looking for that perfect solution.

 

[Lonny Danler]

Hiya Paul,

I really don't know what it is about card readers - they seem to be universally unstable and unreliable! I've owned two Lexar "Pro" FW800 readers, two SanDisk USB2 readers, the [dreaded] Duel Adaptor, the single-P2 USB2 reader, and of course, now the Sonnet Qio - and ALL of them have caused major problems in the field.

The Qio is currently working very well as the best of the bunch; my new favorite piece of kit to be sure, but I never go to any job without at least two other (different) readers as backups.

Some best practices I have learned that seem to apply to all card readers:

- NEVER share busses. One reader per bus. No daisy-chaining.

- Put the reader(s) on a different bus than the hard drives (using eSATA drives helps A LOT and frees up the FW800 bus).

- If there's external power available for drives and/or readers - use it. Bus-power is totally unreliable throughout a 12, 14, 16 hour day...

- Cooling is critical. Swap out readers periodically to keep them cool. They seem to all have problems with overheating (which leads to crashing).​

Hope these tips are helpful!

- Jordan

Completely agree with all this. He preacheth the truth.

 

[N_Villers]

I could be wrong - maybe somebody can answer definitively - but my understanding is that the Maxx Digital Mobile Rocket branded enclosures have more underneath the hood than the mere iStoragePro housing. I do think there is special hardware co-engineered with RED to work with the Rocket, but again, I don't know for certain...

I don't see how this could be possible as the whole idea of a PCIe expansion system is that it acts as a passive conduit and should not require drivers or act differently on separate systems. There are not that many manufacturers and I would bet both systems use the same source. Perhaps OneStopSystems? This would not be the only MaxxDigital product that was simply re-branded, ie. the Avastor HDD.

-noel

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I just got an iStorage Pro. I'd like to WARN everybody before they buy it. It works with RED Rocket and can take it, BUT the 8 bay raid tray enclosure inside is NOT connected to anything.

This makes it that to use the internal RAID in the enclosure you have to occupy one of the low profile slots with a RAID card specifically for this.

WHICH MEANS it only has 2 PCI e extension card slots.

This is important to know cause I got burnt on this for my configuration.

 

[Jordan Livingston]

I just wrote to Devon at Maxx Digital inquiring about wether or not their version of the 'Mobile Rocket RAID' will be the same, or wether they are including their own hardware RAID controller as part of the bundle.

In my ideal world, I would like to use this enclosure with my REDRocket, a Sonnet Tempo 4EP eSATA card, and an ATTO R380 SAS RAID controller... and still achieve 'realtime' REDRocket transcodes via the HBA expansion kit connected to my MacPro.

I don't yet know if this is even physically possible, but after doing lots and lots of research on PCIe host expansion products, simply adding a 2nd MacPro tower and networking them together is starting to look more and more attractive, and ironically more affordable, by comparison. :-/

I'll share the results of my ongoing research /inquiries as always...

Best,

- Jordan

 

[Mike Connelly]

eSATA transfer

eSATA transfer

Just purchased a Sonnet Qio from B & H to transfer P2 rushes in the field. P2 is still in its infancy here in the UK and trying to find out about the Qio with a fault...well I might as well be on the moon.
The distributors/ forums over here haven’t got an ounce of info. And Sonnet USA are making excuses about the one and only engineer that can deal with my problem being used by their CEO on a special project.
So can anyone help.
Set up Qio as instructions and the usual long wait of 7 to 10 minutes before my MacBook Pro opens up. So all’s normal there.
I can get a Full P2 16Gb card to transfer to my G-Safe mirrored drive in approx 10 minutes with Firewire 800 from the Mac.
But when using the Qio eSATA port to the G-Safe eSATA port, the same P2 card takes 3 hours.
I’ve tried it with a single G-Drive and same results.
I’ve made sure my Mac has the latest eSATA drives installed.
My Mac has 10.6.4. latest Snow Leopard.
I also did a test with a loan from Panasonic UK of their USB single card reader which only took 7 ½ minutes to down load the same file.
At the moment I’m a very upset DOP/Lighting Cameraman who thinks he may have waisted $500 and should have just bought the $200 Panasonic card reader, but I did want the facility of being able to read S+S & CF cards.
Mike Connelly
Freelance Lighting Cameraman (DOP).

 

[CJ Roy]

A buddy's Qio just took a dive as he was about to work an Alexa shoot. So maybe they're a bit glitchy still.

 

[Dustin Cross]

That sucks. I am planning to use my Qio for an Alexa shoot I am about to start. What are the other options for downloading SxS cards? I need a back-up solution other than network my Macbook Pro to my tower to download SxS cards.

My Matrox MXO2 does not work through my Qio on my Laptop, so I am thinking the Mobile Rocket wouldn't either.

I haven't tried the MXO2 through the Qio on my Mac Pro, but I hear that works.

You do need to dedicate a RAID card to the eight drives in the iStorage and Maxx Digital Mobile Rocket Raid. The big problem is you can only use half height cards and they can't be too long either. There is only room for one full size card in both. It looks like it is possible to do a slight redesign (move one fan) and you could put full height cards in the two slots.


Dusty

 

[Jordan Livingston]

Mike,

You probably either have a driver conflict on your system or a defective unit. If you read some of my previous posts, I had a defective unit that would not behave until Sonnet replaced it with a brand new one, which then worked perfectly! I do not have 7-10 minute boot up times - my system boots up in normal speed! I've found that I can back up a full 32GB SxS card to two eSATA drives simultaneously in about 8 minutes.

I do still experience two bugs, which are both relatively minor. One is that if I'm using eSATA drives with the Qio, inserting any memory card during a drive-to-drive file transfer will cause the hard drives to abruptly dismount. This is issue is entirely avoidable. The other bug I experience is that I have to re-install the Qio drivers every time I start up the computer without the Qio. In other words, if I install the drivers and always boot up with Qio, no problem. But as soon as I boot up without the Qio, I have to re-install the drivers before the Qio will be recognized again.

As for the problems you are experiencing, I would think Sonnet should have to replace your unit. At least in my experience, the first iterations were not reliable, but my understanding is that the major bugs had been fixed by now.

- Jordan

 

[CJ Roy]

That sucks. I am planning to use my Qio for an Alexa shoot I am about to start. What are the other options for downloading SxS cards? I need a back-up solution other than network my Macbook Pro to my tower to download SxS cards.

Well, that's exactly what I recommended and that's what he did. Said it worked flawlessly. In a pinch, it's better than nothing. But it sounds like it was pretty fast.

Maybe he'll chime in here, about it.

 

[Valentyn Gryb]

Just purchased a Sonnet Qio from B & H to transfer P2 rushes in the field. P2 is still in its infancy here in the UK and trying to find out about the Qio with a fault...well I might as well be on the moon.
The distributors/ forums over here haven’t got an ounce of info. And Sonnet USA are making excuses about the one and only engineer that can deal with my problem being used by their CEO on a special project.
So can anyone help.
Set up Qio as instructions and the usual long wait of 7 to 10 minutes before my MacBook Pro opens up. So all’s normal there.
I can get a Full P2 16Gb card to transfer to my G-Safe mirrored drive in approx 10 minutes with Firewire 800 from the Mac.
But when using the Qio eSATA port to the G-Safe eSATA port, the same P2 card takes 3 hours.
I’ve tried it with a single G-Drive and same results.
I’ve made sure my Mac has the latest eSATA drives installed.
My Mac has 10.6.4. latest Snow Leopard.
I also did a test with a loan from Panasonic UK of their USB single card reader which only took 7 ½ minutes to down load the same file.
At the moment I’m a very upset DOP/Lighting Cameraman who thinks he may have waisted $500 and should have just bought the $200 Panasonic card reader, but I did want the facility of being able to read S+S & CF cards.
Mike Connelly
Freelance Lighting Cameraman (DOP).

Try to localize defect part. Use another esata cables, another esata xpress card , an finally another mbp. Try every combination you can make. For me it seems Qio/express card uncompatibility, or bad cable/cables/connectors. Try to reinstall software. Also, i agree that 7-10 minutes to boot - is a looooooong time. It means, that your system not healthy. A have a lot software in my system, also mbp, a lot drivers for motu, matrox, aja io modules - but my system takes 1-2 minutes to full loaded Fcp from restart. 7-10 minutes - is the first sogn that you have some problem in mac os.

 

[Dustin Cross]

Mike,

My Qio was working perfectly, then I installed my Matrox MXO2 and my system started taking forever to boot. Uninstalled the MXO2 software and the system boots fast again and the Qio seems to be working perfectly. I noticed the MXO2 and Qio use the exact same PCIe cards and so I am guessing there is a conflict between the drivers they use or something. Are you using an MXO2?


Dusty