Something New....

[Jim Retar]

Commenting about the design of that Canon is akin to commenting on the RED breadbox.... they are just prototypes to showcase the tech.

Both have their own beautiful comedy magic.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Surely this is a joke? This has to be one of the most ass backward designs yet, prototype or not. And prototypes are usually the place to show a little flair. It looks like it was designed by (and for) pre-schoolers. Looks like it would handle like a camel. That eyepiece, that lens, that monitor. That... base - WTF. It had better make some really nice images.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Still, I bet if one were to wear a clown nose and wave this around, one could get access to just about anyplace in the world. Look out A Dod Mantle ( :

 

[Michael Hastings]

Commenting about the design of that Canon is akin to commenting on the RED breadbox.... they are just prototypes to showcase the tech.

Both have their own beautiful comedy magic.

But you're preaching rationality in the Twilight Zone. I think we can all agree that any actual production camera will be much like the new Sony F3. And if you want an alternate monitor position it will be easier to make these into a cine-conglomeration than making an R1 (Maybe epic?) into a slick ENG/EFP configuration.

And I hate to say it 'cause I'll get flamed, but (setting aside the important internals) even this Canon prototype shows more design and manufacturing sophistication than a red1 and possibly even an Epic.

Be honest, if red had offered a 4k and redcode/CF version in that F3 body would more than 5% have chosen the actual R1 configuration?

 

[Jeff Coatney]

The big lesson to take away from Red's evolution is not about the form-factor or the merits of ergonomics, its about shooting RAW at the absolute highest resolution possible and propagating RedCode, Color Science and a delivery codec for Red Ray.

The brilliance lies in the product that filters out from the camera, not the box itself. The sensor is important only in that it delivers this idealized product: the footage.

This is the lesson Canon, Arri and Panavision have yet to learn. When they finally catch on, our tools and our world will be a better place.

The bold, in-your-face position that Jim took was: Post does not lead Acquisition, Acquisition leads Post. He caught hell for it. And everybody that bought a Red One caught hell for it to some degree.

The only step in the chain that has the luxury of looking to the future is acquisition. No where else in the production chain is "future-proofing" even possible. The legacy players have put this responsibility on the sidelines for too long and it created a stagnant development environment that Red goosed back to life.

We complain about them (Sony, Canon, Pany, et. al.) because they develop to the highest point in the bell-curve of end-users, thinking they will capture a section of the market. Nobody swings for the fences in that space, so no end-users get what they really want out of those product offerings.

 

[Michael Hastings]

The big lesson to take away from Red's evolution is not about the form-factor or the merits of ergonomics, its about shooting RAW at the absolute highest resolution possible and propagating RedCode, Color Science and a delivery codec for Red Ray.

The brilliance lies in the product that filters out from the camera, not the box itself. The sensor is important only in that it delivers this idealized product: the footage.

This is the lesson Canon, Arri and Panavision have yet to learn. When they finally catch on, our tools and our world will be a better place.

I like what Red has done, and I'm on board for the next generation. But they've made one camera which is to you and me a sweet combination of mostly existing technology. Canon has made high res Raw cameras for years. They sell hundreds of thousands of 18MP+ raw cameras a year. They've proven they can throw together a working 4k movie cam any time they want. The fact that they haven't sold the exact same 4K/(jpeg2000 derived?)compressed raw/30fps configuration that RED has sold to 4 or 5000 customers over 3.5 years doesn't really suggest that they have any "lesson" to be learned. They don't tell us their long and medium term plans (and Red doesnt really either given the history and the "everything subject to change, count on it" disclaimer) because as a mature, public company they are expected to plan and execute the plan.

 

[Bill Anderson]

From engadget: " And although we're told that the 4K Multipurpose concept will never come to market..." Now that explains why it's such an ugly baby. Phew.

 

[Peter Strietmann]

"Sticking a camera inside a hand-held hair drier housing does not make a good design. Evolution, my ass..."

This has to be one of my favorite critiques, ever. Genius.

 

[Art Chong]

Commenting about the design of that Canon is akin to commenting on the RED breadbox.... they are just prototypes to showcase the tech.

Both have their own beautiful comedy magic.

I don't necessarily agree with that. The red breadbox was a completely utilitarian device meant to house the thing they were really working on: sensor and boards. The Canon hairdryer had to have someone actually put that through CAD then build it. The fact that they were working on it at all is what's scary because it shows how out of touch they are with what customers want.

 

[Michael Hastings]

From engadget: " And although we're told that the 4K Multipurpose concept will never come to market..." Now that explains why it's such an ugly baby. Phew.

Canon made it very clear it was a tech demonstrater. Have you ever seen the red prototypes?

I placed my redone order/deposit Apr 2006 when it it was a block in the booth and a couple renders in a brochure. I'm not sure Redone would win any beauty contests. Titanium R we got With our serial number is pretty cool though!

Commenting about the design of that Canon is akin to commenting on the RED breadbox.... they are just prototypes to showcase the tech.

Both have their own beautiful comedy magic.

I don't necessarily agree with that. The red breadbox was a completely utilitarian device meant to house the thing they were really working on: sensor and boards. The Canon hairdryer had to have someone actually put that through CAD then build it. The fact that they were working on it at all is what's scary because it shows how out of touch they are with what customers want.

No offens but that seems like utter BS to me.

 

[Carl Weston]

The big lesson to take away from Red's evolution is not about the form-factor or the merits of ergonomics, its about shooting RAW at the absolute highest resolution possible and propagating RedCode, Color Science and a delivery codec for Red Ray.

The brilliance lies in the product that filters out from the camera, not the box itself. The sensor is important only in that it delivers this idealized product: the footage.

This is the lesson Canon, Arri and Panavision have yet to learn. When they finally catch on, our tools and our world will be a better place.

The bold, in-your-face position that Jim took was: Post does not lead Acquisition, Acquisition leads Post. He caught hell for it. And everybody that bought a Red One caught hell for it to some degree.

The only step in the chain that has the luxury of looking to the future is acquisition. No where else in the production chain is "future-proofing" even possible. The legacy players have put this responsibility on the sidelines for too long and it created a stagnant development environment that Red goosed back to life.

We complain about them (Sony, Canon, Pany, et. al.) because they develop to the highest point in the bell-curve of end-users, thinking they will capture a section of the market. Nobody swings for the fences in that space, so no end-users get what they really want out of those product offerings.

I truly hope that Canon, Arri, Sony and Panavision don't buy into the reds complicated workflow...I choose the Arri Alexa and ProRes over all other work flows all day!

 

[Stephen Matthews]

I'd like to point out a few things not sure if they are all true but this is what I herd and read about the canon "prototype". It had no recording whatsoever, it was just a camera head feeding a 4k image to their new displays and they were basically a way for canon to showcase 4k displays while using their own tech. but I would like to point out that with all the power and R&D of canon they couldn't get recording on camera or even fit all the necessary electronics into the camera head as the black box below it holds the rest.

It would have been more impressive to have housed all the components in one body rather than this model. But once again this was not about the camera but the displays (at least that's what I herd).

when we see some kind of 4k camera with on board recording then we can compare ergonomics of a camera that fits so many components in such a small space to the red one or epic.

honestly though I would not want a F3 style RED, main reason is the evf at the back, yes I can add one somewhere else but I still have that extra evf sticking off the back (thinking from a purely ergonomics standpoint) but that is just me.

choices, yours to make

 

[Bill Anderson]

Michael:

That's why I posted the engadget quote. The hairdryer stuck onto a breadbox was being discussed like it was something other than a decoy. Yes, I've seen the RED prototypes. And now I see the RED, and the Scarlet, and the Epic. And so much more.

 

[Art Chong]

No offens but that seems like utter BS to me.

What does, the fact that the breadbox was a utility device or that someone had to design the hairdryer on a CAD?

 

[Shane Betts]

I truly hope that Canon, Arri, Sony and Panavision don't buy into the reds complicated workflow...I choose the Arri Alexa and ProRes over all other work flows all day!

The brilliance lies in the product that filters out from the camera, not the box itself. The sensor is important only in that it delivers this idealized product: the footage.

This is the lesson Canon, Arri and Panavision have yet to learn. When they finally catch on, our tools and our world will be a better place.

Canon, Arri and Panavision are clearly not the only ones who need to learn this. Video workflow may be less complicated for those more used to DV but, for those who work a bit higher end (talking 35mm here), the Red workflow is actually amazingly simple.

 

[Bill Anderson]

And like the Fine Young Cannibals sang in their second album, "The Raw and the Cooked": AS HARD AS IT IS; DON'T LOOK BACK" ( :

 

[Carl Weston]

Canon, Arri and Panavision are clearly not the only ones who need to learn this. Video workflow may be less complicated for those more used to DV but, for those who work a bit higher end (talking 35mm here), the Red workflow is actually amazingly simple.

LOL...Hollywood is moving to LOG C and ProRes as fast as the cameras can be made!

 

[Bill Anderson]

Carl:
As fast as the other cameras are being made: what choice do they have?
And is this true? Yesterday film was the Hollywood gold standard, now you tell me it's Pro res? I can understand commercial workflow limitations but ....
RAW is a prepared canvas, pro-res is painting by numbers. Each to their own.

 

[Tom Lowe]

I truly hope that Canon, Arri, Sony and Panavision don't buy into the reds complicated workflow...I choose the Arri Alexa and ProRes over all other work flows all day!

Do you choose to shoot JPEG instead of RAW on your DSLR still camera?

On another matter, who cares what the Canon 4K prototype is housed in?? It's just a prototype. It could be housed in an old refrigerator for all I care. What's important is that Canon has recognized and is taking steps toward 4K. I applaud that.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Do you choose to shoot JPEG instead of RAW on your DSLR still camera?

On another matter, who cares what the Canon 4K prototype is housed in?? It's just a prototype. It could be housed in an old refrigerator for all I care. What's important is that Canon has recognized and is taking steps toward 4K. I applaud that.

Tom,

you talk now as a real Canon guy... just kidding...!!!???